grindy

Now I finally got the reference in Simpsons.

Urban Hat€monger ?

^^

My first 2 names are R & J too

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DwnWthVwls

So glad the main point of my post got ignored.. maybe I should edit out the quote so people actually discuss the question I posed which actually supports TH even though I disagree with his opinion.

Sometimes it's fun to play devil's advocate.

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I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

Plankton

Back on track then... I'll reiterate:

...and I'm done.

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See location...

DwnWthVwls

^Exactly my point. You can't just attach "it's my opinion" to anything you want and deny everything else. There are certain criteria that must be fulfilled in order to qualify as a valid opinion.

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I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

Holerbot6000

John Cage identifies a specific period of time and any sound that occurs during that time is part of the 'song'; Brian Eno takes a piece of sound, any sound, and plays it repeatedly until the sound starts to become familiar to the listener, like a melody. Ideas like these made me realize that anything can be music and pushes my ears to be more adventurous.

Machine

Hi everyone I'm back glad to see that there was a discussion while I was gone and I'd like to add my input. On the matter of Trollheart's opinion on the matter of grindcore and how much debate it has caused it is good to bring up that unlike physical things we cannot have a clear definition if what music is. No matter what a sweater made of s*** is nonetheless a sweater as it has the physical properties of one. There is a grey area when it comes to music and in it the subjective mind forms its own opinions on things that are not seen, love, or any emotion has this grey area and that's why I think we form our own definitions. So we end up forming our own opinions on what music is, and while I respect this entirely grindcore fans who do consider it music are going to fight against it. I personally hold the view that it is music along with many other things and as our discussion turned early if music was the intent by the artist isn't that music. The same goes with art but again that's another thread another time.

Jesse Mattson

My music theory teacher told us anything that is intended to be music, is music

DwnWthVwls

Confused as to how Jans and I got such different responses when I basically said the exact same thing. Maybe my response came off aggressive or poorly worded.

You didn't "deny everything else" it was just an extension of my point (because some people do act like that), sorry if it came off the wrong way. You clearly identified the criteria above with your examples of opinions.. the door, traffic, clouds. Opinions are not right or wrong, facts are. Opinions that can be contradicted by facts are not opinions they are false claims.

I am clearly not the most articulate person on this forum nor do I have the most expansive vocabulary but I'm doing my best here to explain why I am confused by how you are approaching the topic.

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I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

Ninetales

well ok then. uh heres my response to everything in this thread probably

- my sweater/veggie analogies weren't meant as parallels to music, but rather to show that just because you say "well it's my opinion" is a poor defense. Go back to my guitar "opinion" if you want a clearer cut example. (So with DwnWthVwls' example, no I dont think a shit shirt is a piece of clothing as the definition is more strict in terms of what its made of)

- I was not "dissing" Trollheart personally, just "dissing" his opinion. There is absolutely a difference between the two. So it's not like I suddenly don't respect you or something; I still do. Ok good, now let's stop using the word dissing plz&thx.

- Now I have conceded that there are grey areas with respect to what music is, but that doesn't mean everything is in that grey area. One could make a pretty strong argument that field recordings aren't music, but saying "Grindcore is not music" is just plain wrong. Yes, I get you keep saying to me, but it doesn't change the fact that it is music. It's exactly like me saying "to me the Beatles aren't music" which is stupid and completely wrong. Just like saying baseball isn't a sport is wrong. I don't care if you say "well to me it's not". You're wrong either way. to me, right?

- I never said anything close to this. Express your opinions all you want, but dont expect me not to call out the bad ones. Oddly enough a fascist regime would be more against people calling out other's opinions, don't ya think

Ok so we can't tell Hitler that his views were wrong. gotcha.

heh ok then.

I think that's everything phew what a thread