The average lifespan of an underground artist today
 

I was just wondering if anyone knows what the average lifespan is of an underground artist today in the era of downloading.

When I was growing up, an indie or underground artist could make a decent living as a musician, largely in part to merchandise and album sales.

From what I understand today, with all the free downloading, is that young underground artists are forced to constantly be on tour in order to turn a profit, because they hardly make anything from downloads.

As consequence, I've been told that a lot of them burn themselves out fast because your only way of making money now is being out on the road. Can't be good for your body or ears.

Anyone know the new lifespan, thoughts?

I'm an underground artist who has made 10+ albums and has made a total of 0$ from those albums

:O

Ok that's cool, but I'm specifically talking about underground artists who are trying to survive primarily off their work as musicians.

(For instance, how long do people think that a band like Death Grips will hold out for? As long as Killing Joke? Skinny Puppy? Has the lifespan of bands that go against the mainstream been shortened?)

Sounds like we're doing them a favor. I doubt Killing Joke make enough money to ever retire with, so unless they can keep going till they drop dead, eventually they're going to be screwed.

I'd say about 24 seconds.

I suppose that is one way of looking at it, but I guess I see it as a loss of great artists, I'd at least like underground bands to last a good 8 years.

I think this is particularly relevant to metal bands these days, metalcore aside, it's pretty much become an underground genre.

Thus is a band like Toxic Holocaust still going? and if so, how long do you think they can hold out before they get sick of touring & being perpetually broke?

I am severely doubting "underground" artists made more bank than underground artists now.

I can't imagine that the music industry is particularly kind or rewarding to the "underground" artists. But I'm not sure that the now is any different from then in regards to the sustainability of these artists. Music has always been harsh on the independents, and I imagine it will remain the same into the future.

Bands that were on SST, Touch and Go, Alternative Tentacles, etc were living the dream. At least compared to my ****ty life.

Today, you can put your music online so if you're worth listening to you should be able to get people out to your shows. There's a lot of competition in every niche these days because everyone is up against everyone online. There are lots of teenagers whose favorite artists are just people who sing along with records on YouTube or do a capella versions of classic songs. Like some 14 year old singing an Al Green cover or whatever. People who can't make a living at it still get relatively incredible exposure. I used to play in bands. I never made money but when I got to the point where bars started giving our band drinks on the house I thought it was amazing. I'm getting drunk for free just for playing music! That guy from the Meat Puppets says he couldn't believe he didn't have to work a day job for years especially since their music was obviously mediocre after Meat Puppets 2. I also remember getting to chat with a member of Napalm Death after a show and he wasn't complaining he was like saying touring America was amazing and was describing the different clubs in different cities. I don't feel sorry for anyone who plays music and enjoys any success at all. I'm just thankful I have easy access to whatever I want to listen to. The musicians should feel the same way. I don't want to hear boohoo I'm broke. So what? I'm broke too bitch.

Are music careers more short lived or burn outs even quicker? Nah. Musicians burning out and dying young is as old as music itself.

"God help the troubadour who tries to be a star"

A lot of hiphop artists I know have been on the grind for over 10 years and slowly gaining recognition. I know others who completely fell off. Idk enough about the industry to understand what happens, but based on interviews it seems like you either through all your money on the line and hope to get some recognition or you fall flat on your ass.

I don't know about the rest of them, but I remember reading that bands were always having problems with getting money from SST cause they'd take the money they made from artists like Sonic Youth and the Meat Puppets and put it all in ****ty bands that made nothing. So I challenge the notion that independent labels were all that great to work for.

Well I did say compared to me which is a pretty low standard.

Without any kind of stability or retirement plan then I really don't see how it matters how much money you're making. Unless you're big enough that you can expect long-term royalties from your music then you're just counting time until you become a burger flipper.

Did somebody say "Flipper"?

SEX BOMB BABY ----YEAH!!!

You made some good points, some of the bands on alternative tentacles were able to make a reasonable profit off their album sales. I even heard that some of the Dead Kennedys releases became gold albums over time (though I don't know if this is true)

I imagine the guys in the Meat Puppets were able for the most part, to make a career primarily by just doing music, and I imagine the guys in Napalm Death are somewhat well off after being picked up by the majors for years.

I've also heard that the internet has made things more competitive as well, back in the day it was either word of mouth or who the co-op radio stations promoted, but today there is access to a much greater field of artists.

Anyways my hat goes off to you for trying, best of luck.

Yes, despite hip hops continued success in the pop charts, I think rap music has really suffered from the decline of the major record companies. For instance, bands like the Wu Tang Clan, The Roots, Massive Attack ect, used to get signed to a smaller subsidiary companies of the majors, and then would bubble up to the surface.

It seems like rap artists today are having to go solo, there will always be Kayne West's and Rick Ross's but how are the Immortal Technique's and the Jedi Mind Tricks of the world doing these days?


Eventually most of them I imagine do go back to being general labourers, but artists like Killing joke & Nick Cave are probably better off than you might think. The guys in Rancid for instance are multi millionaires. In the era of free downloading, I don't think that would happen today.

As for a retirement plan, I would argue that for me an 8 year lifespan for an indie band is good enough, but I'm worried that where hitting a point where their lifespan is getting considerably shortened to the point that most of them never get off the ground.

Anyways thanks for your input guys interesting topic.

The Problem With Music :Negativworldwidewebland

I remember very well when this article by Steve Albini was published in Maximum Rock 'n' Roll.

Gives you a little feel for the good ol days.

I wonder the same thing. I heard a few years back tech is clearing well over $100k, but he also does a lot of traveling and goes around talking about politics and stuff.

I wonder about groups like JMT who have been around for a long time and still push out content. Seems like they and many others have a built a strong enough following to live a regular blue collar life + travelling. I don't think they are caking it in.

The underground scene is so volatile, I'd fear for my future when I can't do it anymore. You never see rappers performing in their 60s like you do some of these rockstars.

Back when I worked at Burger King, I asked my black coworkers why they didn't listen to old school rap like white people listened to classic rock, and I was generally told that when black people drop something, they don't pick it back up. Which is why dances made up by black people only last a certain amount of time before being completely and utterly forgotten, except by goofy white people who like to embarrass themselves at weddings and on Youtube. I've never seen anything to contradict this, so I'd have to assume that's why rappers who don't have white audiences aren't still around.

Idk, I'm sure if Will Smith and Jazzy Jeff got together they could still pack a decent sized venue performing their early work. I think that would be a mostly black audience except for the few people like me.

Lol @ Will Smith having a black audience. Start doing the Fresh Prince theme in a room full of white people and see how many of them don't join in.

Yeh white people were going crazy over this in the 80s!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Jaz...ce_discography

This is not the 80s. This is 2015. If Will Smith went on tour he'd get a bunch of crackers there to see an actor and sing along to the Fresh Prince theme.

To be fair, Will Smith wasn't the worst actor/rapper that came around. I actually found his music quite listenable.

Yeh but the majority of his fan base back then were black people and I'm sure a lot of them would love to see a 80s throwback show of songs from their first few albums. I'd love to see him and Jazz play their old stuff. It's just people like you who don't know much about his rap career that pigeon hole him into the Fresh Prince persona.

This song is ****ing amazing

I have that album, it's fun.

Rae and Ghost are doing a 20 year anniversary tour of Cuban Linx. I'm thinking whitey might have to mind himself at that show but we'll see.

He was genuinely a fun artist to listen to because his overall persona was down to earth and entertaining. His lyrics weren't half bad either.

I'm sure people who grew up in the eighties love Will Smith for his music, but they also don't generally spend money on albums or concerts the way that young kids do. Whenever I hear about throwback artists going on tour, the crowd tends to be disproportionately young. If older artists want to keep going, then they need to take in younger fans, cause their original fanbase will age out of their music fan phase.

I've been to see Wu Tang, and there was definitely a large black audience, but they're also a famous group even today, so it's not really fair to compare them to older artists who don't have the same name recognition in this day and age.

And I didn't have to mind myself. Everybody was too busy smoking weed to give a **** about all the white people.

Just don't say nigga when you're rapping the lyrics or it'll turn into that weird movie scene where the music gets cut and everyone turns around to stare at you.

Back when? DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince were super popular at my very white junior high school back in the 80s and I have no reason to think my school was some kind of anomaly.

Just because they were popular among white people doesn't mean they weren't more popular among black people. I'm not saying white people haven't always listened to rap, but don't tell me the fanbase hasn't shifted since the 80s. Let's be honest Eminem brought a ton of white fans to rap.

Could be, but that isn't what you said. You said the majority of their audience was black.

Well I believe the latter to be true which means the majority is black.

How so?

If it's more popular with black people than white people than black people are the majority of the fan base. We aren't that far apart in age and I can tell you almost no one in my school listened to rap other than maybe wutang.

The typical suburban hell raising teen didn't care much about rap until NWA started celebrating criminal activity. White people hadn't been that tickled since the days of the minstrel shows.

Not necessarily. Black people are like 12% of the population. White people are 70+% of the population. Even if every single black person in America loved the Fresh Prince and only half of the white people loved him, that would still make for a mostly white fanbase.

I think we're about ten years apart. I don't know what to tell you, hip hop was extremely popular at my school in the late 80s/early 90s. Maybe it was an anomaly but I doubt it since DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince were platinum sellers at the time.

Okay, I can see that. I didn't really think about that.

I don't think it was an anomaly. It just wasn't my experience.