Dream Theater?

They're like the Nickelback of prog.

Everybody just STFU. I've done my piece as requested. If William wants to use it fine, if not then that's fine too. I've far too many of your crappy albums to review for Love or Hate, so I'm off...

So you admit you were wrong?

Chula is that you?

Wait, what?
;)

No, you're right they didn't, but off the top of my head at the time I couldn't think of another American prog rock band. The genre has been peculiarly British, as I noted in my award-losing journal; even the "revival" was driven almost entirely by British bands. I guess it may be something to do with all those kids having been forced to learn to play piano or violin while in the States they were all playing baseball or whatever ripped-off sport was popular there.
What does this mean? I mentioned them as a prog metal band. You got a problem with that? I bloody hate them, but they're certainly a popular (insofar as any prog metal band can be considered popular) example of the genre.

I think he might have been answering my question about currently popular prog.

yeah sorry didnt see your original post; was answering the question.

Ah, ok. Thanks.

Works the other way, too.
A lot of older people will dismiss whatever music younger generations listen to, often without even giving it any sort of shot at all.
Seems to me many people of all generations get 'stuck' in the musical style of their first 20-some years or so and cannot ever leave this bubble.

It's interesting that someone mentioned Country, I'm having a very similar discussion with some of the folks at one of my local night spots. They are technically a 'Country' bar, but did, in their first 2 very successful years, also schedule bands that fell more into the 'alternative Country' or even 'Rock' genres, always to a packed house of mostly college- or grad student types.
They don't do that any more, Waylon, Willie, Merle & George pretty much rule the waves, which brings the crusty old cowboy guys back (who believe John Travolta is the greatest cowboy who ever rode a mechanical bull and Taylor Swift sux), but keeps the college crowd out. Result: Far fewer people, far lamer bands.
I'm trying to tell them to at least play some more contemporary Country, but maybe even that isn't good enough, I think Country may be over as a widely popular genre.

Not true.

The genre itself is still pretty popular.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I use to think that I would never hit that stage and that I would always be open minded, but there comes a time when it is almost undignified to be blarring the latest indie music from your car stereo.

(If I went to a metalcore show, I'm pretty sure I would last 2 minutes before I could't handle being around drunken 21 year old white males trying to prove their tribal manhood)

That and when your younger & in the music scene you have dreams about being the next Massive Attack, ect. When your older you just have to accept the reality of survival.

It's not that I don't like new music, it's just that I don't care, and as result, I have less tolerance for something that doesn't sound recognizably appealing.

I agree and I think a lot of it has to do with the eternal "That's too loud/That's not loud enough" argument that goes on between the generations. As each new generation comes up, their music is, it seems, more aggressive and louder than that of their parents. Jazz gave way to rock, rock to metal and punk, metal and punk to hip-hop to a degree, and so on. Now, those of us that are considered (ahem) older think much of today's music is too loud, formless and ideally at this time soulless, while those who are younger think that what we listen to is boring, old and irrelevant. And so, I expect, it will always be.

There's also the, as you put it, tribal aspect, where it's considered "uncool" to listen to "old" music, and as everyone wants to be accepted, you get the herd mentality often in music appreciation, where I swear a large percentage of those who listen to today's music (sorry) do so more because it's the thing to do, the thing that makes you acceptable, rather than something they actively enjoy.

I was interested to see, when Ed Sheeran played here recently, of the four or so people stopped and interviewed and asked why they liked him, almost every response was "Uh, it's just great. The lyrics. The .... I just really like his music." Showing us that really (although in fairness these people were put on the spot, but still, if someone stopped me in the street and asked me why I liked my favourite band, I could talk their ear off with reasons) nobody KNOWS why they like Ed Sheeran, ergo, nobody really probably does actually like him, it's just a case of going with the crowd.

I hope I don't get to that point where I stop seeking out new music from new bands or artists. Honestly I cannot fathom that version of myself ever coming to be. William seemed to think the same thing, but he's reached that point. I do recall at a Machine Head concert I went to a few months back, I found myself annoyed with those loud, obnoxious people that wanted to be in your face ALL THE DAMN TIME, no sense of respect at all, not to mention they boozed up, some of which were easily 30 or older, me being 28 at the time.

In some ways I might already be morphing in to the type of person William and Wolf described, I could stand to not want to tolerate morons at concerts at the very least, but not giving up seeking out new music to listen to, even if the generation younger than my own is the audience.

I see this more the other way, though. Like if you ask a handful of "young generationers" who the best band ever is, a lot of them will probably say the Beatles even if they couldnt name an album or a song or a band member.

Yeah, they probably think they're being "edgy". As far as I'm concerned, I like what I like, be it popular or not, and have always been that way. I have never NOT listened to an artiste because someone told me they weren't cool, though young Trollheart did cast aspersions on the likes of ABBA, Madness, Barry Manilow etc. When I found I liked those bands though (Madness excepted) I just listened to them; I didn't think Oh I can't listen to this! What would my friends say?

Also, I had no friends...

This is still how I am to this day haha. I love Deftones, I listen to 30 Seconds To Mars, love BUSH, listen to Seether time to time, like a few Nickelback songs (these songs still suck, just a little catchy), I spin The Killers now and again, just bands that most people here would sh*t on, and it's because I listen to what grabs my attention, popular or cool, good or not, it doesn't matter.

...curious thing is how some here STILL don't get that about me, and they think picking on me for it will hit a nerve. Most recently was Batty going after me for posting up a Beartooth song, of course he was just having fun (he did hate them though), I still laughed and cranked up Beartooth's album, unapologetic.

Old music is so formless and loud. Not like that new Ed Sheeran nonsense.

I think that's always been the mindset of many a casual music fan. They're not that concerned about being picky and just go with whatever everyone else liked. I mean, Frank Sinatra's music isn't particularly great (imo, especially when compared to his contemporaries in the jazz field), but a lot of his popularity came from his image. You see pretty much the same type of thing today.

Hmmm, I think if you were in high school during that 30 year period of music from the 70's to 90's, than attitude and heaviness were definitely the generation gap back than, but I think things have changed...

I think the generation gap today is production slickness, as a lot of modern pop music sounds so overproduced it makes me feel nauseous, like if I just ate too much cherry cheese cake, and the underground, which usually pits itself against the mainstream reflects this.

Here's a good example of a band Frownland posted a while back.



I've run across a few bands like this now, and if I grew up in a world where soulless pop & R&B dominated the mainstream, I'd try to find a way to butcher it to.

Now I can digest anything that is heavy (grindcore ect), but this is harder because its more abstract, like Skinny Puppy or Frank Zappa, and at my age I'm not about to replay it ten times in a row until I learn to appreciate it lol. So generation gap.

I think Ninetales also brings up a good point. The amount of young kids that tell me that the music back in the 70's (Pink Floyd, Beatles, Sabbath) is way better than the music today astonishes me.

That being said, I take your point on the tribalism, I can't think of any person over 30 that would want to hang out with pea brain 21 year olds.





It happens, give it 10 more years and you will be there :)

I read an article a little while back that touched on this. Basically that this generation doesn't really have much to rebel against: our parents and grandparents are former hippies -- or at least don't call us ***gots when we grow out our hair -- we have more technology and consumer products to keep us from concentrating on railing against a system that's more uninspiring than it is repressive, the crazy decades -- from the Depression, to WWII, to Civil Rights and the hippy counterculture, to Vietnam, and all through the Cold War -- are kind of over and our culture is just kind of coasting along on a sea of laziness and indifference.

And so you have kids who are just as happy listening to Led Zeppelin as Lil' Wayne, cause it's not like their parents are these ogres who need to be vilified. TBH, our parents are boring in their casual liberalness. So why not listen to AC/DC and rediscover post-punk?

Still makes no sense to me. I think it has to have a lot to do with how adamant a lot of kids' parents -- and a lot of middle-aged adults -- really don't like new music at all. So, these kids hear that not only from their parents, but from their brothers and sisters as well, and sometimes their piers. What's even more baffling is the fact that there's more access to new music than ever before. Some of them just say they like all the classic stuff to be cool. Otherwise I don't understand it.

I read an article recently on the death of youth sub cultures, and how the youth of today, don't really coalesce into uniformed counterculture groups anymore. (rockers, homies, hippies, punks ect)

Your right in that the casual liberalness of parents probably makes it hard for kids to rebel today "Oh you want to be a gangster Jimmy, well ok, just remember that dinner is at 7" lol.

That and we live in a culturally liberal welfare state, it's people who are on the right of the spectrum that are on the fringe now, so unless your going to become some hardcore ultranationalist, and we all know how that ended last time around, it's kind of hard to rebel.

I also think one of the main driving factors is the decline of the music industry with the internet and free downloading, record companies don't have the power and influence they once had culturally, so there is less to rally against.

At the end of the day, the end of youth subcultures isn't a bad thing, it was just a historical phenomenon that students will read in history books a hundred years from now.

As far as the decline in youth musical rebelliousness goes, I think the internet affects them more by how it democratizes music. Hard to get excited by Nirvana when you can find ten million other bands of the same quality or better playing all different types of music.

Nothing to rebel against? Ha!
I think the next generation ('Post-Millenials'?) might rebel against 24/7/365 Über-surveillance of every tiny aspect of your life by (anti)social media, against constantly staring at a screen of some type or another against EVERYTHING being Alternative Alternative Alternative to the Alternative, against EVERYONE being pierced & tattooed, maybe even against Rap.

I'm not entirely free of the music 'bubble' I mentioned - I also have 'special' relationships, not all of them good, with the musical styles I grew up with, but I do try to broaden my horizons by listening to current acts, and once every blue moon or so, I even find one I like.

The internet, YouTube & such certainly do make it MUCH more difficult to stand out, any bozo with a webcam who can strum 3 chords, work a synthesizer or click together some Playstation music can be heard instantly by hundreds of millions.

I thought I'd chime in - not about the cultural context because I have no idea what todays youth is like - but about the original idea that people stop listening to new music at a certain age.

33 years (soon 34) may be not be much compared to some of the older/elderly ;) :P members in here, but it's enough that my mindset has changed a lot over the years, and enough that I have seen friends and family change around me.

My sister who's a couple years older than me has retreated from mildly interesting music into complete blandness now that she's settled with a kid and a man. Nickelback, 'nuff said :P

My brother, a handful years younger than me, has seemingly lost interest in exploring and finding new music. I was shocked earlier this year when he casually told me he didn't plan to buy any music this year. He doesn't even seem to get excited when his favourite bands are putting new stuff out. It should be noted that he listens to almost everything under the sun, stylewise. It just seems like he doesn't care that much about bands he don't already know, all of a sudden. Perhaps it's no coincidence that he got settled with a girlfriend recently.

Then there's me; I'm still completely obsessed with new music and while I like far from all of it, my curiosity has not dampened with age. Maybe it will happen eventually? I don't know... but for now, the only change in my mindset over the last ten years has been that I've become even less tolerant about bland, simplistic stuff like they play on the radio.

Maybe all people become "boring" when they get older, maybe only some lose the desire to challenge themselves with newfangled sounds?

Maybe it has to do with becoming settled? I'm a loner who has nothing else to care about than my interests - that may be an important piece of this puzzle.

I don't know, but the thought of becoming one of those "back in MY day" types scares me :O

NOTE: I don't mean to suggest that guys like me who aren't settled and who obsess over their interests are losers. I live like I do because I want to and I don't feel sorry for myself. I'm not even sure I ever want to be in a relationship. Guys like me are meant to die alone!

I want to be hip until i need a hip replacement that's why i listened to that new Earl sweatshirt album. I try to keep up with whtvr artist is hot atm but it seems artist today don't stay popular for very long and soon are replaced with a hot new artist that will go through that same fad cycle.

I want to chime in too here and say, don't you think whether or not you like or hate the music your parents listened to is a reflection of how cool/trendy/hip you believe your parents are? For example, I'm a 90s kid and my mom listened to alternative, ska, and punk music along with vanilla stuff like Seal, Sting and U2. I thought she was cool, so by default, I though her taste was good. And I still do. And I'm listening to Seal right now.

My mom was never that cool. I had to suffer through her doo-wop and oldies which I could never tolerate, even as a young lad who knew nothing about music. I naturally didn't like her music, and this is without any other outside factors influencing me, such as peer pressure and so on. This is one of the reasons I'm confused when some young people say they only like old music. My dad's rock stuff and some of the stuff the both liked (Journey, Chicago, Boston, Queen and that kind of thing) was okay to listen to, but I still needed to forge ahead with defining my own taste in music.

If youth culture is getting lost, is music still going to be relevant in the future? I can't imagine it wouldn't be, but then again, recorded music is only so old, insofar as being a medium of extension for creating outlets that go beyond what humans can experience from the self.

Ah yes, the clan......
No one in my family was musically inclined, can't remember anyone ever buying any albums or tapes.
My mom and my aunt would absentmindedly listen to a radio station that played a mix of Austrian folk (country....) music and 'soft hits' by crooners - European and other, such as Streisand, Sinatra, Crosby, Peter Alexander, Udo Jürgens, etc. etc. etc.
My uncle would also listen to opera, but he wasn't a huge fan who had to go to the opera all the time.
My dad's musical tastes can be described as follows: If it's not Mozart, it's crap, if it's not classical, it's double crap and if it's from England or the US, it's crap to the 10th power.

So I'm assuming you don't like any of those artists/genres?