Was modern music being written pre-1965?

RJDG14 · 03-05-2016, 07:23 AM

Having recently listened to and enjoyed Neil Young's "Cortez The Killer" (recorded 1974/5), which has many similarities to more recent guitar music from the 80s and 90s, I chose to research the song on Wikipedia. It claims that he wrote it while studying history at high school, however I don't see how it could have been written this early. Even in acoustic form, it still doesn't fit into the 1960-1963 era, either lyrically or melodically. Young's recorded music from 1963 (in The Squires) sounds very typical of its era, so I have trouble understanding how Cortez The Killer was written around this era. Is it likely that Young was joking, had he written the song in its 1970s form but found it too uncommercial to bother with, or had he written it in a simpler form and later adapted his composition?

So was there an underground scene in 1960-65 that was creating music like Cortez, which had little or no outside exposure until later? If so, could you give some examples, or if not, what is some early 60s folk music that has modern day chord progression (if there is any)?

MJD · 03-08-2016, 09:01 AM

You really need to specify what you refer to as "modern music"!

OccultHawk · 03-08-2016, 09:12 AM

I love the song Cortez the Killer.

It has a simple chord structure but also a hypnotic modal drone-like quality.

Dylan's first four records were all released before 1965. A Hard Rain might be the closest thing to what you're talking about.

Plainview · 03-08-2016, 09:50 AM

Nothing is quite like what you describe, but John Fahey's early American Primitivism work was pretty ahead of its time and experimental. Likewise, Ornette Coleman's The Shape of Jazz to Come and a lot of Coltrane's work was pushing boundaries and moved the genre on in a big way. Maybe Black Monk Time by Monks is close to what you're talking about? Came out in '66, so just out, but definitely still sounds pretty fresh. Other than that, I guess The Velvet Underground and Nico is an album band's still try and ape to this day.

Black Monk Time:

OccultHawk · 03-08-2016, 10:21 AM

Concerning having written it when he was in high school, obviously Crazy Horse didn't exist back then. It's not only Young's chord structure and vocals that define this song but it's all that combined with the dreamy jamming that Crazy Horse brought to the table. I definitely think there's a unique characteristic about this music but other great bands of the era also had signature sounds. It's a great song. And I mean really fabulous. I've had the good fortune of seeing "Mr. Young" live four times and the one time he broke into Cortez was one of the most profound musical moments of my life. That said, in terms of its place in music history, I wouldn't want to get TOO carried away with how pioneering it is. It's not like it opened up new ground like the artists mentioned above like Fahey and Ornette.

RJDG14 · 03-12-2016, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJD

You really need to specify what you refer to as "modern music"!

In this sense, rock music typical of the late 60s and 70s.

OccultHawk · 03-12-2016, 04:01 AM

Good grief. Please stop.

RoxyRollah · 03-12-2016, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJDG14

In this sense, rock music typical of the late 60s and 70s.

Yes.Beethoven wrote bohemian rapsody long before queen covered it.

Lisnaholic · 03-12-2016, 05:13 PM

Cortez is a fine song, but I don't think of it - or the year '65 - as being a particular turning point. In fact, perhaps Neil Young came late to the party. Link Wray, for example, had already been ripping it up for seven years:-

OccultHawk · 03-12-2016, 06:19 PM

Link Wray is an entirely different tree. That's more like the roots of MC5. You're comparing beer funnels to gravity bongs.

03-05-2016, 07:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
RJDG14 Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 157	Was modern music being written pre-1965? Having recently listened to and enjoyed Neil Young's "Cortez The Killer" (recorded 1974/5), which has many similarities to more recent guitar music from the 80s and 90s, I chose to research the song on Wikipedia. It claims that he wrote it while studying history at high school, however I don't see how it could have been written this early. Even in acoustic form, it still doesn't fit into the 1960-1963 era, either lyrically or melodically. Young's recorded music from 1963 (in The Squires) sounds very typical of its era, so I have trouble understanding how Cortez The Killer was written around this era. Is it likely that Young was joking, had he written the song in its 1970s form but found it too uncommercial to bother with, or had he written it in a simpler form and later adapted his composition? So was there an underground scene in 1960-65 that was creating music like Cortez, which had little or no outside exposure until later? If so, could you give some examples, or if not, what is some early 60s folk music that has modern day chord progression (if there is any)?

03-12-2016, 05:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	Cortez is a fine song, but I don't think of it - or the year '65 - as being a particular turning point. In fact, perhaps Neil Young came late to the party. Link Wray, for example, had already been ripping it up for seven years:- __________________ "Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

03-08-2016, 09:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
MJD Groupie Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 19	You really need to specify what you refer to as "modern music"!

03-08-2016, 09:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	I love the song Cortez the Killer. It has a simple chord structure but also a hypnotic modal drone-like quality. Dylan's first four records were all released before 1965. A Hard Rain might be the closest thing to what you're talking about.

03-08-2016, 10:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Concerning having written it when he was in high school, obviously Crazy Horse didn't exist back then. It's not only Young's chord structure and vocals that define this song but it's all that combined with the dreamy jamming that Crazy Horse brought to the table. I definitely think there's a unique characteristic about this music but other great bands of the era also had signature sounds. It's a great song. And I mean really fabulous. I've had the good fortune of seeing "Mr. Young" live four times and the one time he broke into Cortez was one of the most profound musical moments of my life. That said, in terms of its place in music history, I wouldn't want to get TOO carried away with how pioneering it is. It's not like it opened up new ground like the artists mentioned above like Fahey and Ornette.

03-12-2016, 04:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Good grief. Please stop.

03-12-2016, 06:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Link Wray is an entirely different tree. That's more like the roots of MC5. You're comparing beer funnels to gravity bongs.