Let The Batlord Get You into ICP

The Batlord · 06-28-2017, 02:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Oh wow, they made fifty songs about being psychotic clowns that kill bigots in the name of god. So creative.

I'm not looking at it from a back packer view point. The rehash song topics like every rapper does. They don't do it much differently on different albums. The whole disappointment of ICP is that they had this gimmick that allowed them to create commentary on social and political issues in a creative way yet they were never creative or smart enough to flesh that out. Because that's what they were going for in the beginning when they were just a bunch of Esham rip offs like every other rapper. Their commentary never became anything more than some adolescent whining about life being unfair and half assed versions of what every rapper was saying at the time. Most of their creativity came from their producer, Mike Clark. And yeah, in the beginning it was new. Not at all the most creative **** coming out at the time in hip hop though. They were just riding mainstream trends through out the whole thing. At first they tried to be gangster rap because that was what's cool. Then they rode the numetal wave when that got big in the late 90s. I had appreciation for what they tried to be. I still every once in a rare while will listen to older ****. The other day I threw on Ringmaster, used to love that album. Disappointed, it didn't live up to the hype of nostalgia. Very cringey. With a few exceptions. When they connect they can hit pretty hard, but a lot of times moments are ruined with some terrible ass lyric. I was immature when I got into them, and they never matured with me like Twiztid did. But they are definitely goofy. They know they are goofy and they own it. They use the whole "we're clowns" thing to explain all the goofy **** they say. I thought that's why you liked them. Their light hearted foolery while Twiztid are too depressed or some****.

I like a lot of **** about ICP. Their early, self-aware non-seriousness is highly charming combined with their bizarre, psychedelic lyrics (for lack of a better term I guess). Their musical styles that, yes, rode current trends, created unique sounds with every album that made each one unique, necessary, and better than the genres they borrowed from, even when the albums weren't even actually that great (like Shangri-La], and by far Carnival of Carnage). And I don't really like that they used so many guitar beats from Jekyll Brothers and on, which dumbed down the textures of their production (and yeah, Mike E. Clark was obviously the most traditionally skilled musician in the group, and is also something that makes them superior to Twiztid).

The amount you talk about lyrics in regard to ICP makes me think that you simply aren't on the proper wavelength to appreciate them. They have a lot of highly visual imagery, beyond violence and testicles, that isn't at all accomplished, but succeeds at a basic level. But that's only part of the point. ICP have a lot of underrated lyrics afaic, but they really shine on an all around musical level. Hip hop isn't just bars. It's music just the same as any other, and can flourish on many levels even while failing on more traditionally hailed metrics.

Lucem Ferre · 06-28-2017, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I like a lot of **** about ICP. Their early, self-aware non-seriousness is highly charming combined with their bizarre, psychedelic lyrics (for lack of a better term I guess). Their musical styles that, yes, rode current trends, created unique sounds with every album that made each one unique, necessary, and better than the genres they borrowed from, even when the albums weren't even actually that great (like Shangri-La], and by far Carnival of Carnage). And I don't really like that they used so many guitar beats from Jekyll Brothers and on, which dumbed down the textures of their production (and yeah, Mike E. Clark was obviously the most traditionally skilled musician in the group, and is also something that makes them superior to Twiztid).

The amount you talk about lyrics in regard to ICP makes me think that you simply aren't on the proper wavelength to appreciate them. They have a lot of highly visual imagery, beyond violence and testicles, that isn't at all accomplished, but succeeds at a basic level. But that's only part of the point. ICP have a lot of underrated lyrics afaic, but they really shine on an all around musical level. Hip hop isn't just bars. It's music just the same as any other, and can flourish on many levels even while failing on more traditionally hailed metrics.

You liked them because they were goofy. Just say it. And sadly half the time the aren't aware of it. I don't think the styles they borrowed from were better than the actually genres. Especially with newer **** and them jumping on the edm rap bandwagon. I don't think they are better for having Mike Clark though I do think Mike Clark is better than Fritz hands down. Fritz had his moment on Freek Show, but ****ing sucks now. And I think a lot of Green Books production wasn't so good.

Dude, I guarantee I've heard more from ICP than you. I know what they have to offer. Like I said, every once in a while they have a good song. But it's not something that connects to me anymore. I feel there are plenty of artists that do what they do but better. With out the goofy antics that keep you entertained but I don't want to hear. Yeah, they are a lot more talented in other aspects than a lot give them credit for, but they say stupid ****. It's not how technical it is. It's that I don't want to hear the stupid goofy **** that they say. I feel the same way about a lot of the genre.

It's like, ICP are these B list slasher flicks. Where a lot of what people enjoy from them is the cheesey campy fun bit of the films. While I may enjoy one of those every once in a while, I prefer horror films like Babadook. And Twiztid are Candyman. Somewhere in between but a good mix I can get behind. Analogy made sense to me.

The Batlord · 06-28-2017, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

You liked them because they were goofy. Just say it. And sadly half the time the aren't aware of it. I don't think the styles they borrowed from were better than the actually genres. Especially with newer **** and them jumping on the edm rap bandwagon. I don't think they are better for having Mike Clark though I do think Mike Clark is better than Fritz hands down. Fritz had his moment on Freek Show, but ****ing sucks now. And I think a lot of Green Books production wasn't so good.

Dude, I guarantee I've heard more from ICP than you. I know what they have to offer. Like I said, every once in a while they have a good song. But it's not something that connects to me anymore. I feel there are plenty of artists that do what they do but better. With out the goofy antics that keep you entertained but I don't want to hear. Yeah, they are a lot more talented in other aspects than a lot give them credit for, but they say stupid ****. It's not how technical it is. It's that I don't want to hear the stupid goofy **** that they say. I feel the same way about a lot of the genre.

It's like, ICP are these B list slasher flicks. Where a lot of what people enjoy from them is the cheesey campy fun bit of the films. While I may enjoy one of those every once in a while, I prefer horror films like Babadook. And Twiztid are Candyman. Somewhere in between but a good mix I can get behind. Analogy made sense to me.

I definitely do not just like them just because they're goofy. If I did I'd be way more of a Gwar fan considering I listen to more thrash metal than hip hop. I love them because they have an idiosyncratic charisma I can't get anywhere else, their concept (while sadly unfulfilled) is unique and actually interesting, their simplicity also translates to immediacy (I'm a ****ing Ke$ha fan for god's sake), their production has its limitations while still being highly textured and atmospheric (I cannot overemphasize how much I love ICP's different atmospheres throughout the 90s and 00s), and I also ****ing love me some B-list schlockers. You know, like Big Money Hustlas, which is fantastic.

Lucem Ferre · 06-28-2017, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I definitely do not just like them just because they're goofy. If I did I'd be way more of a Gwar fan considering I listen to more thrash metal than hip hop. I love them because they have an idiosyncratic charisma I can't get anywhere else, their concept (while sadly unfulfilled) is unique and actually interesting, their simplicity also translates to immediacy (I'm a ****ing Ke$ha fan for god's sake), their production has its limitations while still being highly textured and atmospheric (I cannot overemphasize how much I love ICP's different atmospheres throughout the 90s and 00s), and I also ****ing love me some B-list schlockers. You know, like Big Money Hustlas, which is fantastic.

So you like them because they are the right kind of goofy. Yeah, the atmosphere of their songs from the 90s or even the 00s haven't been replicated. They are definitely unique and something you can't get anywhere else. But for me, they still say goofy **** that turns me off of it. I also feel that way about older Twiztid. Like I've said, Freek Show used to be one of my favorite albums but I have a hard time revisiting it because of how cringey the lyrics are. I'm not a fun guy. I hate ****. I am the sad sack that jams Twiztid. They are a level above just about all artists in the genre. Hell, so are ICP when they get songs that I can jam too. I'd take either of them over a Scum.

You know what else sucks about both? Juggalos. I hate most people but I especially hate most juggalos. I mean, I treat each individual as individuals regardless of what stupid identity label you choose (unless you're a skinhead or something) but there is just a huge amount of annoying ****ing juggalos. It's like, the feud happened, and all the meth head retards went to ICP while all they goofy white boys with vapes and fidget spinners and 420 fitted caps went to Twiztid and I hate them all. For the record, I don't vape, smoke pot and only used a fidget spinner once for it's intended use; too keep my hand busy while rolling hard on ecstacy.

The Batlord · 06-28-2017, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

So you like them because they are the right kind of goofy.

Again, not the only reason I love them, but yeah definitely. Twiztid appeals to you for their approach, and ICP appeals to me for theirs. Consider who I am. An anti-social, abrasive weirdo with a childish, oddball sense of humor. There aren't many groups that speak to that mentality.

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Yeah, the atmosphere of their songs from the 90s or even the 00s haven't been replicated. They are definitely unique and something you can't get anywhere else. But for me, they still say goofy **** that turns me off of it.

I have an ironclad ability to ignore the **** I don't like when there's **** I do like. I could give a **** about their Christian ****, but I still find their approach to their Christian nonsense interesting in much the same way I dig comic books and Lord of the Rings. Currently listening to "CPK", a song which references killing "***gots", even if it's talking about douchebag preachers and not necessarily actual gay people. If there's one thing that would turn me off to ICP, it's their explicit homophobia, but I can deal with it cause they have the music to make up for it.

Quote:

I also feel that way about older Twiztid. Like I've said, Freek Show used to be one of my favorite albums but I have a hard time revisiting it because of how cringey the lyrics are. I'm not a fun guy. I hate ****. I am the sad sack that jams Twiztid. They are a level above just about all artists in the genre. Hell, so are ICP when they get songs that I can jam too. I'd take either of them over a Scum.

I'm a sadsack depressive with self-esteem and anger issuesas well, but there are better artists for that catharsis. And I guess at this point I don't much look to music for ceiling gazing anyway. I just like music that clicks with my aesthetic tastes.

Quote:

You know what else sucks about both? Juggalos. I hate most people but I especially hate most juggalos. I mean, I treat each individual as individuals regardless of what stupid identity label you choose (unless you're a skinhead or something) but there is just a huge amount of annoying ****ing juggalos. It's like, the feud happened, and all the meth head retards went to ICP while all they goofy white boys with vapes and fidget spinners and 420 fitted caps went to Twiztid and I hate them all. For the record, I don't vape, smoke pot and only used a fidget spinner once for it's intended use; too keep my hand busy while rolling hard on ecstacy.

Same. It's why even when I was down with a bunch of juggalos, listening to Psychopathic **** constantly, and going to ICP and Twiztid shows, I still never called myself a juggalo. We're simply not the same people. I'm just an ICP fan and nothing more, even if I'm still a classless cretin with the mentality of a middle schooler.