The Album Club: "Map to the Treasure: Reimagining Laura Nyro" by Billy Childs

**Frownland** · 02-23-2018, 07:37 AM

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Originally Posted by MicShazam

1) The album I selected for this thread cannot kill or harm "real" jazz, because it is not a zero sum game. Would some guy who bought this album somehow run out and buy a Coltrane album instead, had this Billy Childs album not existed? No way.

If you bought this album and don't own Coltrane's discography, then the answer is yes.

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2) What about the outlets that praise this album? they will praise other kinds of jazz as well, and so does Ted Gioia (en masse, I might add), on whose web page I got this rec in the first place. This is no competition between two kinds of jazz.

Those writers have terrible/no taste because that's this album's demographic. They don't matter either way. What about all of the music criticism praising absolute garbage like DAMN.? I get where OH is coming from and honestly he's right. Albums like this dirty the pool and there's going to be at least one poor sap who's going to come across a review or this album in the interest of checking out what jazz is all about. That's absolutely sickening.

Anteater · 02-23-2018, 07:40 AM

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Almost everyday I add a new release to the 2018 free jazz thread. It’s full of real jazz by real musicians dedicating their life to making serious jazz and these ****head worthless pop musicians drop their names on this listless Kenny G processed heartless soulless talentless fake music that not only isn’t jazz but isn’t even decent pop or anything. It’s a ****ing insult to jazz. There’s ten worthwhile releases coming out everyday to no recognition and this ****ing garbage gets billboard number one jazz. This isn’t ****ing jazz. Billy Childs shouldn’t just be chastised for making very bad music he also deserves to get his ****ing ass kicked for taking up space. For ****ing wasting the atmosphere that actually creates the sound waves this worthless **** takes up. It’s a personal insult to me that my fellow human would stoop this ****ing low. Someone should beat the **** out of his mother. I’m not even joking.

They aren't making better or worse jazz than others: they're just following in the musical footsteps of a different set of people you've approved of versus others. For example, David Sanborn is a brilliant player who worked with Bowie and other greats in his prime but later had a career that bordered on smooth jazz (some of which is pretty good): it's not your place to decide whether what he did was right or wrong. If anything, he was smart. I've followed your free jazz thread awhile, and I can safely say that if most of the artists you featured had a serious clue they'd figure out a way to broaden their appeal whilst still holding on to some core tenants of their jazz fundamentals if the goal is to reach a greater audience. Miles Davis understood this kind of thing instinctually. He studied what was going on in pop, R&B, etc. the same way he studied anything else in his life.

rubber soul · 02-23-2018, 07:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

Albums like this dirty the pool and there's going to be at least one poor sap who's going to come across a review or this album in the interest of checking out what jazz is all about. That's absolutely sickening.

That's like saying REO Speedwagon dirties Heavy Metal. I'm guessing most Metal Heads don't really care; they just don't listen to REO.

**Frownland** · 02-23-2018, 07:45 AM

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Originally Posted by rubber soul

That's like saying REO Speedwagon dirties Heavy Metal. I'm guessing most Metal Heads don't really care; they just don't listen to REO.

Did you read my post? I'm obviously aware of the option to not listen to terrible music.

OccultHawk · 02-23-2018, 08:05 AM

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I've followed your free jazz thread awhile,

Cool

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if most of the artists you featured had a serious clue they'd figure out a way to broaden their appeal if the goal is to reach a greater audience.

The greater audience should make it their goal to reach them. Thank god they don’t cheapen their music.

About Davis he was unassaible as a musician but like must musicians **** as a critic.

I like REO Speedwagon. They don’t pretend they’re something they’re not.

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I get where OH is coming from and honestly he's right.

Damn straight.

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Everything about Hawk is music snobbery 101. If he likes something it's unassailable and anyone who doesn't like it can expect to get their door kicked in, but it he doesn't like it it's hot garbage and anyone who does like it can expect to get their door kicked in. There's no midway with the guy: love or hate, no in-between, with a good solid dose of **** you either way.

I take an ambivalent light mostly positive approach to a lot of music. REO Speedwagon, Beyoncé, Motley Crue, Journey, and so on.

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You see, other people aren't as narrowminded as you, OH

I actually have one of the most diversified musical palates of any poster on here.

Trollheart · 02-23-2018, 11:45 AM

Given how much controversy this album has stirred up, it's odd that there are only two votes for Hated it. Maybe OH voted twice!

**Frownland** · 02-23-2018, 11:46 AM

*raises hand*

Trollheart · 02-23-2018, 11:47 AM

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I actually have one of the most diversified musical palates of any poster on here.

I think he's saying more that your approach to how other people like music you hate/hate music you like is totally narrowminded, and it is. You don't seem to accept that other people have other opinions. It's your way or Interstate 76. It is very narrowminded, in that regard, and it makes you come across as very combative and arrogant.

rubber soul · 02-23-2018, 11:53 AM

Actually, I'm very interested in what other people like (or don't like). I'm always curious what might be someone else's favorite albums of any given year are. In fact it was Goofle, of all people, that inspired me to do my lists. If we all thought the same way, it would be a pretty boring world, wouldn't it?

**Frownland** · 02-23-2018, 11:57 AM

Some people think differently because they think a lot less. Maybe boring would be better.

View Poll Results: How Much Did You Enjoy The Album?
Loved it	1	9.09%
Liked it	3	27.27%
Meh	2	18.18%
Disliked it	0	0%
Hated it	5	45.45%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

02-23-2018, 11:45 AM	#46 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,971	Given how much controversy this album has stirred up, it's odd that there are only two votes for Hated it. Maybe OH voted twice! __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

02-23-2018, 11:46 AM	#47 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	raises hand __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

02-23-2018, 11:57 AM	#50 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Some people think differently because they think a lot less. Maybe boring would be better. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x