MB Classics: Led Zeppelin IV

The Batlord · 02-22-2018, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josht23musiclover

I guess the question is should we rate something higher just because it set certain standards? Or should it completely stand or fall on its own merits as music/whether we like it?

It's easy to dismiss something older and influential as being primitive, but the whole reason it was influential is because the artist did something very much the **** right, and if you open your mind and ears you could find out that there's something you might actually have been missing. First impressions should not dictate how you judge music.

josht23musiclover · 02-22-2018, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

It's easy to dismiss something older and influential as being primitive, but the whole reason it was influential is because the artist did something very much the **** right, and if you open your mind and ears you could find out that there's something you might actually have been missing. First impressions should not dictate how you judge music.

Not necessarily: something can be very influential for doing something very much the **** wrong. But, that's not the case here, and I certainly agree about the second part of your post. That's not what I'm asking though: if you listen to something old and it just seems really dated despite how influential it was (say after you've listened to it a few times), should it get any 'bonus points' for being influential in a rating thread like this where we are determining 'classics'?

The Batlord · 02-22-2018, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josht23musiclover

Not necessarily: something can be very influential for doing something very much the **** wrong. But, that's not the case here, and I certainly agree about the second part of your post. That's not what I'm asking though: if you listen to something old and it just seems really dated despite how influential it was (say after you've listened to it a few times), should it get any 'bonus points' for being influential in a rating thread like this where we are determining 'classics'?

I don't think we're talking about ratings, just in how you approach music in general. Obviously the only thing that should matter when rating something is how much you dig it.

josht23musiclover · 02-22-2018, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I don't think we're talking about ratings, just in how you approach music in general. Obviously the only thing that should matter when rating something is how much you dig it.

Fair. What prompted me to post is the important line in Frownland's post: "I just think presentism can close you out of appreciating a lot of great art," regarding TechnicLePanther considering this record to be very 'standard'. Is considering something to be dated presentism, despite how influential it may have been? Technic seems to be saying (despite using problematic/incorrect terms) that later bands/musicians simply took what Zep did and made it more interesting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the last people on this forum you could criticize for presentism as I primarily listen to classical music, and great art is timeless.

OccultHawk · 02-22-2018, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Seriously, 8 individual people said this album was a 10/10, just perfect, wonderful album. It's frankly quite ridiculous.

It’s ridiculous that anyone would dare to give it less. To rate this less than perfect is to misunderstand what it is.

The Batlord · 02-22-2018, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josht23musiclover

Fair. What prompted me to post is the important line in Frownland's post: "I just think presentism can close you out of appreciating a lot of great art," regarding TechnicLePanther considering this record to be very 'standard'. Is considering something to be dated presentism, despite how influential it may have been?

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the last people on this forum you could criticize for presentism as I primarily listen to classical music, and great art is timeless.

I think what Frown was saying was that judging music's creativity by how it stacks up to music that stood on its shoulders is limiting to your perception.

The Batlord · 02-22-2018, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

It’s ridiculous that anyone would dare to give it less. To rate this less than perfect is to misunderstand what it is.

Any album with "Going to California" gets no perfect rating from me.

josht23musiclover · 02-22-2018, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I think what Frown was saying was that judging music's creativity by how it stacks up to music that stood on its shoulders is limiting to your perception.

Well that I agree with, and if that's all he was saying then I readily admit to being a dunce (probably the case, knowing myself as I do).

**Frownland** · 02-22-2018, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josht23musiclover

I guess the question is should we rate something higher just because it set certain standards? Or should it completely stand or fall on its own merits as music/whether we like it?

Oh what's up new(ish) dude, good post.

I say that in general terms of determining a classic, influence can definitely boost an album's status because I don't view classic the same way that I do favourites. It's not always a swing factor because the influence isn't always for the better, but I absolutely think that it's something to consider at the very least. Not only to give something more of a fair shake, but because it can help you identify the roots of what you enjoy about music. Albums like this came in at a point where recording was in an upswing, so they had an immense imprint on music in general. It's genuinely difficult to escape some sort of direct or indirect Zeppelin influence because of that impact. Plus, as a musician (he said with one hand down his pants), going to the source can make it easier to extrapolate on those ideas in new ways or to try to identify points in how music evolves and apply that evolutionary approach to other genres.

For the MB classics thread, I give it a little more leeway because if we were just going to do a plain ole classics list then we might as well just post up a few magazine articles. Going closer to our favourites will give our list more personality in the long run. Personally, I really appreciate originality so it gets a bit of swing depending on the record.

OccultHawk · 02-22-2018, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Any album with "Going to California" gets no perfect rating from me.

It’s a fantastic song. And for one single album to have both GTC and TBOEM is mind blowing. And the way Zeppelin kept up that pace all through their career is so incredible. The only perspectives worth entertaining is WHY it’s unassaible. Not if. The jury decided ages ago. There’s no debating if they’re great. It’s only about understanding why.

I’m glad I’m here to let people know what they don’t know.

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