if you google "pop rock" you will find a list of literally every rock band that has ever been popular
because it's a meaningless term
If only we had a term for popular rock artists.
MicShazam
05-15-2018 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor
(Post 1950982)
they only seem this way in retrospect because they were massively influential
the album in question here sold like garbage
Ok, but I still wonder about the Ramones in general? I mean, if we forget for a moment that pop-punk is often used as a derogatory term, couldn't it be said that the Ramones are pop punk? In the sense that several 90's punk acts are considered pop-punk. The element of danger is missing with the Ramones, and they're very polished and hooky. None of those have to be negative traits, but it just strikes me that they have a lot in common with bands that are considered pop punk.
If one wants to make that distinction at all.
MicShazam
05-15-2018 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor
(Post 1950996)
lol
I can't
maybe some people do say this but it's ****ing stupid
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor
(Post 1951001)
if you google "pop rock" you will find a list of
literally every rock band that has ever been popular
because it's a meaningless term
Genre terms aren't perfect. They're just supposed to help with categorization.
Most music stores I've been to that had genre sorting put Lady Gaga, Led Zeppelin, Abba and punk in the same larger category of pop/rock, then usually separate sections for blues, classical, jazz and metal. One big record store chain that doesn't exist anymore also had an indie category.
In academic terms, both Cannibal Corpse and Britney Spears are simply "popular music", with differentiation only applied between blues, jazz, classical and various kinds of traditional and avant garde music (I think they might also consider electronic music and country separate categories).
This makes sense from a certain perspective, since the only differences between death metal and dance pop, for example, are stylistic. There's a reason why it's so easy to convert a pop song into a metal song, a rock song into disco, etc.
It's a pie that you can slice in many different ways, depending on your needs and what distinctions you care to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor
(Post 1951011)
Ramones were dangerous in their time, they debuted out of CBGB, in a NYC that was the Detroit of its time
putting that aside however the music itself is not nearly as polished as 90's pop punk, it's objectively very lofi in its recording comparatively, Sire was a small label at the time, not a lot of money went into making that first album
we're talking about the band that's on a short list for pioneering Punk itself, a definitive punk band, to retrospectively label them "pop punk" is pretty ridiculous
I don't know if I agree, but I don't know enough about their discography to insist. I just think that it's at the very least an interesting idea to consider them a pioneering punk act and a pioneering pop punk act. Really, I think the difference between punk and pop punk is just paper thin, since it's more about how raw their sound is and their status, than it's about the makeup of the music itself.
I might be wrong.
The Sane Psycho
05-15-2018 02:16 AM
1. The Fastbacks are pretty lofi, but they're undeniably pop punk. Same with Green Day before Dookie. Same with Four Minute Mile era Get Up Kids.
2. To answer your question, I don't think there is a such thing as just "pure" punk.
Janszoon
05-15-2018 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor
(Post 1951018)
then what are you distinguishing from with the prefix "pop", something that wasn't used until the 90's describing commercial bands influenced by punk
There are a lot of terms that are applied retroactively to bands. For example, The Stooges are now referred to as protopunk but obviously nobody referred to anything as protopunk until after punk became a well known genre. Likewise, the Ramones may not have been called pop punk back in the 70s, but their sound was heavily influenced by early 60s pop such as The Beach Boys and they were a major influence on pop punk bands that came later. So they're arguably the original pop punk band.
The Sane Psycho
05-15-2018 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon
(Post 1951026)
There are a lot of terms that are applied retroactively to bands. For example, The Stooges are now referred to as protopunk but obviously nobody referred to anything as protopunk until after punk became a well known genre. Likewise, the Ramones may not have been called pop punk back in the 70s, but their sound was heavily influenced by early 60s pop such as The Beach Boys and they were a major influence on pop punk bands that came later. So they're arguably the original pop punk band.
While the Ramones were undoubtedly highly influential on the genre, I would argue that Go Girl Crazy by the Dictators is the original pop punk album.
I'm surprised so many people are agreeing with me. I was certain calling those classic bands pop punk would be a controversial opinion. I was honestly expecting more insults and doubts about my credibility and knowledge thrown my way. Thanks guys!
Trollheart
05-15-2018 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blank.
(Post 1950992)
Yeah, he doesn't know punk like us. Check out this punk band, I think you're gonna like it:
Ban this man for posting obscene videos! :yikes: I can feel my lunch coming back up....
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sane Psycho
(Post 1950995)
Please enlighten me, oh pretentious one. I need your annoying punker than thou attitude to guide me out of my foolishness.
Oh this is elph all over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor
(Post 1951005)
they usually just get called Rock, christ
until you had prog and punk, and finally fully electronic pop, pop and rock were just interchangeable
but if we take "pop" to mean popular again, you have the fact that Ramones were about as popular as the other (American) first wave punk bands, that is, not at all
Nah that's Worship Music, mate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicShazam
(Post 1951012)
Genre terms aren't perfect. They're just supposed to help with categorization.
Most music stores I've been to that had genre sorting put Lady Gaga, Led Zeppelin, Abba and punk in the same larger category of pop/rock, then usually separate sections for blues, classical, jazz and metal. One big record store chain that doesn't exist anymore also had an indie category.
In academic terms, both Cannibal Corpse and Britney Spears are simply "popular music", with differentiation only applied between blues, jazz, classical and various kinds of traditional and avant garde music (I think they might also consider electronic music and country separate categories).
This makes sense from a certain perspective, since the only differences between death metal and dance pop, for example, are stylistic. There's a reason why it's so easy to convert a pop song into a metal song, a rock song into disco, etc.
Oh can you imagine the collab? :laughing:
Quote:
It's a pie that you can slice in many different ways, depending on your needs and what distinctions you care to make.
Oh if more people here believed this it would be such a better place!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sane Psycho
(Post 1951016)
1. The Fastbacks are pretty lofi, but they're undeniably pop punk. Same with Green Day before Dookie. Same with Four Minute Mile era Get Up Kids.
2. To answer your question, I don't think there is a such thing as just "pure" punk.
What about Hardcore Punk? Would that not be "pure" punk? Remembering that I know about as much about punk as I do about quantum physics...
OccultHawk
05-15-2018 05:58 AM
I agree with elph in spirit, especially in the sense that it’s absolute blasphemy to associate The Ramones with the pop punk music that came afterward. My gut reaction is very much the same.
BUT The Ramones were a surprisingly complex band in terms of how much they successfully tackled.
Quote:
their sound was heavily influenced by early 60s pop such as The Beach Boys
That’s also a very important thing to understand about The Ramones.
Plus, the syrupy bubblegum of the early sixties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicShazam
(Post 1950978)
If the Ramones aren't pop punk, then nothing is. They were no less smoothed out, happy clappy, mainstream friendly and neutered than Green Day, Blink and company were.
That’s profoundly incorrect.
There’s no shame in:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sane Psycho
(Post 1950981)
Yes
It
Is
It's punk, right? It prominently features delicious pop hooks, right? Therefore, pop punk.
That’s true but The Ramones did it so much better than anyone. They were the greatest pop band ever AND the greatest punk band ever AND the greatest band ever period by any metric.
**** bro, enjoy whatever you enjoy, I just encourage you to feel the sacrosanct power of The Ramones that separates them from all others.
