Be wrong? Well you are.

If only we had a term for popular rock artists.

Ok, but I still wonder about the Ramones in general? I mean, if we forget for a moment that pop-punk is often used as a derogatory term, couldn't it be said that the Ramones are pop punk? In the sense that several 90's punk acts are considered pop-punk. The element of danger is missing with the Ramones, and they're very polished and hooky. None of those have to be negative traits, but it just strikes me that they have a lot in common with bands that are considered pop punk.

If one wants to make that distinction at all.

Genre terms aren't perfect. They're just supposed to help with categorization.

Most music stores I've been to that had genre sorting put Lady Gaga, Led Zeppelin, Abba and punk in the same larger category of pop/rock, then usually separate sections for blues, classical, jazz and metal. One big record store chain that doesn't exist anymore also had an indie category.

In academic terms, both Cannibal Corpse and Britney Spears are simply "popular music", with differentiation only applied between blues, jazz, classical and various kinds of traditional and avant garde music (I think they might also consider electronic music and country separate categories).
This makes sense from a certain perspective, since the only differences between death metal and dance pop, for example, are stylistic. There's a reason why it's so easy to convert a pop song into a metal song, a rock song into disco, etc.

It's a pie that you can slice in many different ways, depending on your needs and what distinctions you care to make.

I don't know if I agree, but I don't know enough about their discography to insist. I just think that it's at the very least an interesting idea to consider them a pioneering punk act and a pioneering pop punk act. Really, I think the difference between punk and pop punk is just paper thin, since it's more about how raw their sound is and their status, than it's about the makeup of the music itself.

I might be wrong.

1. The Fastbacks are pretty lofi, but they're undeniably pop punk. Same with Green Day before Dookie. Same with Four Minute Mile era Get Up Kids.

2. To answer your question, I don't think there is a such thing as just "pure" punk.

There are a lot of terms that are applied retroactively to bands. For example, The Stooges are now referred to as protopunk but obviously nobody referred to anything as protopunk until after punk became a well known genre. Likewise, the Ramones may not have been called pop punk back in the 70s, but their sound was heavily influenced by early 60s pop such as The Beach Boys and they were a major influence on pop punk bands that came later. So they're arguably the original pop punk band.

While the Ramones were undoubtedly highly influential on the genre, I would argue that Go Girl Crazy by the Dictators is the original pop punk album.

I'm surprised so many people are agreeing with me. I was certain calling those classic bands pop punk would be a controversial opinion. I was honestly expecting more insults and doubts about my credibility and knowledge thrown my way. Thanks guys!

Ban this man for posting obscene videos! :yikes: I can feel my lunch coming back up....
Oh this is elph all over.
Nah that's Worship Music, mate.
Oh can you imagine the collab? :laughing:
Again...



Oh if more people here believed this it would be such a better place!
What about Hardcore Punk? Would that not be "pure" punk? Remembering that I know about as much about punk as I do about quantum physics...

I agree with elph in spirit, especially in the sense that it’s absolute blasphemy to associate The Ramones with the pop punk music that came afterward. My gut reaction is very much the same.

BUT The Ramones were a surprisingly complex band in terms of how much they successfully tackled.

That’s also a very important thing to understand about The Ramones.

Plus, the syrupy bubblegum of the early sixties.

That’s profoundly incorrect.




There’s no shame in:

That’s true but The Ramones did it so much better than anyone. They were the greatest pop band ever AND the greatest punk band ever AND the greatest band ever period by any metric.

**** bro, enjoy whatever you enjoy, I just encourage you to feel the sacrosanct power of The Ramones that separates them from all others.

Time to rewatch Rock 'n Roll High School.

Church

Why are you invoking meaningless terms to support your stance?

All I know is this conversation makes me want to listen to the Ramones.

I think you’re using different language to say the exact same thing.

Same here, i get why elph wants to separate them from pop punk groups like Green day and Blink but Janz made a good point too cause i used to listen to Green Day and just thought they were punk. I can understand why some ppl would put them in that category but if were to tell somebody about The Ramones i would just say it's punk.

I agree with this too. I don't get too hung up on labelling bands, for exmpl like i said, I would call The Ramones punk but if someone wants to put them in the pop punk category at least make the distinction of what their place is in that category cause when you place them in the same genre as Blink 182 you absolutely have to make that distinction.

Don't do that Nick. Don't oversimplify and define bands by their hits on pop culture. Im not an expert on either Black Flag or The Ramones but i don't pretend i am. What i do know is i heard enough good songs from them and know enough about the history of punk to understand why they earned the status they have. This stance you took that you got it all figured out by just scratching the surface is No Bueno.

And about Henry Rollins. Henry imo is a bit of a pretentious edge lord at times and a realist at other times so i can relate to some of his opinions but he's certainly not an all knowing punk sage whose words should be revered as gospel. His music is good tho, The Henry Rollins band got some good jams and as the frontman for Black Flag he was pretty badass.

Here's a Black Flag song worth listening to:



And here's some clips of Henry Rollins making sense:

I wouldn't have a problem with Nathan's opinions (although I do disagree with some), if he had any idea about music outside of boring, mainstream, basic bitch crap.
Seriously, instead of ranting, shut up, open your ears and follow the lead of some of the incredibly knowledgeable guys here on the forum.

Yeah

I don’t like to engage people who aren’t ready to learn.

Give the guy a chance and that might change. I didn't start really pulling my head out of my ass until about 10 years ago. Up until then, my musical world consisted of Metallica and other big metal acts, No Doubt, Kylie Minogue, Queen, Nirvana and the Offspring. Largely, anyway.

And my lead as well, maybe.

Bjork. Seriously the definition of awful.

It's Björk and I think she's got some pretty good songs. Plus some stuff I can't stand and a lot that I don't really care about.

I don't like how she uses racial slurs.

Infrequently?

Frequently enough.

When has Bjork used a racial slur?

Isn't that some form of yogurt?

I have never heard a single song by her that I can say I Legitimately enjoy. It's all crap.

The only Bjork song I know, but it's good

Björk is like Tool: "Experimental" music for basic bitches.

It's mostly just some songs from Homogenic and Post that I like.
Had a tough time appreciating the other one's I've heard. I guess Debut was also a decent album to me. I don't think her vocals are as annoying as many seem to think, but I think she got less interesting the more experimental she became (ironically).

Jenny Hval, Islaja and Olga Bell do Björk better than Björk.

Did you watch Dancer in the Dark yet?

No, kinda forgot, actually. I might get around to it next month.

I personally don't like the movie, but the soundtrack album is amazing.

I would describe her more as musical theater music for people who like experimental music.

I don't like any Von Trier movies, but people tell me his earliest movies are different, so I might give it the benefit of the doubt. If it at least has good music, that will help.

It has good music but the music on the soundtrack is different, and better.

Racial slurs are pretty cool tbh. Cracker.

Church

This cracker gets it.