Mucha na Dziko

Public opinion = he's a pedophile
Facts = allegedly he was a pedophile

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Frownland

Statement A + Statement B = Claims of pedophilia are not factual

Sounds like taking a side on the matter to me.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

rubber soul

Claims of pedophilia are not proven

But, as Dan Rather says, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

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Mucha na Dziko

Thank you

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Frownland

...we should not form an opinion about whether or not it's a duck until a court does DNA testing on the animal, develops an intensive family tree showing duck lineage, and has a jury certify it as a duck.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Mucha na Dziko

If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck we shouldn't assume it is a duck, because it might not look like a duck

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Guybrush

It is a little difficult to prove a rape that happened a long time ago. I believe most rape victims don't have the luxury of concrete proof against their abusers. We shouldn't disbelieve them on principle.

If anyone had the means to get out of a pedo rape charge, it was MJ. His money, his eccentricities, it all played to his advantage. The way he groomed these families, giving their kids a dream life, supporting them financially. At the same time, he was buying their loyalty. Not necessarily in an obvious way, but he became a hero to them. They didn't want to believe someone so nice could do such a thing. The boys say, in Leaving Neverland, that they were in love with MJ. He told them to keep quiet about certain things and they didn't want anything bad to happen to him, them or their relationship. They were kids and blind to the problematic nature of it. This is what grooming is, it's a deep manipulation and hold over another person's perception of reality. It's similar to what cult leaders can do to followers. It can take years to mentally recover and some never do. MJ was actually holding their whole lives hostage, even if they were too infatuated at that time to see the dark side of that. When these court cases went on, they were basically children and in that state of mind.

After becoming grownups and thinking on it all for many years, these two guys come to the realization that they were abused. This really isn't that uncommon in cases where children have been abused. One might even go so far as to say that if it hadn't already happened, one might suspect that it WOULD happen eventually, if MJ was indeed a rapist. Nothing about it seems particularly out of the ordinary. I still half expect more people to come forward as MJ's grooming wanes - if they have the balls to. Because it takes guts to come forward with something like that. You will be hated by potentially millions of people. Your life from that point onwards will likely revolve around this. I bet these guys who did it have received a fair amount of death threats from enraged fans. So to think these two guys would basically ruin the legacy of a beloved and innocent friend/icon like that for a money grab they probably don't need.. Well, that seems more unlikely to me. There are easier ways to make a buck, like ways that have less of a chance of ruining your life.

Also as I mentioned, they are corroborated by MJ's maid who does tell of cummy underwear, stains and vaseline left around the property. No kidding.

It's crazy how people can be blind to what's in front of them if they just don't want to see it. Kinda like holocaust deniers, pizzagate, Heaven's Gate or Jonestown.

Mucha, is it proven? Of course not. Should you believe it? Yeah.

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Something Completely Different