Mom: "THIS IS NOT MUSIC!"

lol word. I played some wolf eyes at work today. People aren't ready for the sheer insanity that are noise bands haha.

Merzbow is ace.



The spastic scream/yell is unique to hardcore punk rock, it was innovative when first used by Converge and was not previously heard of by metal bands at the time.
If you can't recognize this, especially in the early recordings of Converge, then you are just ignorant.


"Tough guy" is not a genre, believe it or not Hatebreed and Converge are the pioneers of metalcore, not At the Gates, who were strictly a Melodeath band.

It's obvious too, listen to "Suicide Nation" by At The Gates, now listen to "Funeral Thirst" by The Black Dahlia Murder.
Hear any similarities?

Tough guy most certainly is a genre: it's a subgenre of metalcore, heavily influenced by punk ideals (i.e. anti-government, disillusionment, and social commentary) and song structure.

I do not, and will never, consider Black Dahlia as anything but metalcore. And yes, they sound like At the Gates. Case in point: melodeath branched off to become metalcore.

I wouldn't say it's a genre, more a style of hardcore, like youth crew, melodic hardcore etc.

So? That doesn't make them metalcore. Blues grew into rock n roll, but they aren't the same thing.

Sweet comparison.


and BDM =/= metalcore

"Tough guy" is a style.
Job For A Cowboy try to be "tough guy", but it doesn't necessarily include those particular ideals.
What you're saying is a very loose argument.
Hatebreed are metalcore.

The Black Dahlia Murder are not metalcore dude.

/sigh. JFAC does not try to be tough guy. At all.

I tire of this discussion.
Once again, agree to disagree.

No. You're saying At The Gates is a metalcore band. That's simply not a fact.

And I view "toug guy" and "posi" hardcore as being descriptors, not actual genres.

Wolf Eyes should be listened to in your room at 3 AM. Sooo good.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe I ever said AtG was a metalcore outfit; I said their progressive breed of melodeath pioneered the metalcore sound.

'Posicore' is a style, but I'd say 'tough guy' is a genre. 'Posicore' is a set of ideals, and is evident in the lyrics and lifestyle of a band, not the music. 'Tough guy' is a genre, because it possesses its own unique sound. Compare the sound of Throwdown or Remembering Never to As I Lay Dying or All That Remains: the difference is easy to hear.

Corrected.

Believe it or not, they are both styles of music.
Also, lyrics are a part of a band's music.
Lifestyle isn't necessarily a part of a band's music, but "tough guy" lifestyle is inherent in "tough guy" music, just like "posicore" mentality shows in "posicore" music.


Bleh, this is getting boring.
Off topic: I downloaded Burned Mind by Wolf Eyes, great album.
I also dl'd Alec Empire vs. Merzbow Live 1998 in NYC.
Get it!

I tire of this discussion, too. However, I do not take kindly to words being put in my mouth. In closing, there is a difference between saying two bands sound alike and saying they are of the same genre. I don't see how anyone could not recognize that.

In short, posicore lyrics can be applied to any hardcore/metal hybrid, whereas the tough guy sound is a genre in itself.

My mistake for not actually reading what you typed. I hate when I make up things. /furious sarcasm.

Again, there is a difference between pioneering a genre and being of that genre. You guys are hopeless.

lol, there really isn't. You just weren't clear at all, and are now trying to backtrack.

Repeat after me, "I was wrong. At The Gates is not even close to being a metalcore band. The only thing they have in common is that some metalcore stole their minor key, chromaticised riffs. I have no knowledge of music theory or anything outside meedly tech and therefore will cease to argue"

It'll do you good.

First off, I actually have two years of music theory under my belt; granted, that's a drop in the bucket, but it's better than nothing. Second, I am one-hundred percent positive that I listen to a greater variety of music than anyone on this board; the majority of the people I have encountered (including yourself) are locked into a handful of genres and are convinced they are the greatest. I, however, do not venture deeply into any one genre, but rather explore about seventy-five percent of all of them. I will admit that I do not know everything about death metal, or metalcore, or the hybrids in between, but I will not concede that AtG is 'not even close to being a metalcore band'. That is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. Third, your misunderstanding of the English language isn't my fault.

1. Congrats, use it then.

2. I really couldn't care less. It's a pointless arguement. If you want to know what I jam, my last.fm link is my signature.

3. You're on the internet. Inflection, sarcasm, etc are hard to pick up on. And it obviously wasn't only my "misunderstanding". Plus the fact that you do not think they aren't at all a non-metalcore band highlights you're lack of use of theory when analyzing what you're hearing.

So you firmly believe that there are no elements of metalcore evident in AtG?

Yes.

There are elements of ATG in metalcore. Notably the minor/diminished riffs, and some vocal patterns.

But you don't believe that early metalcore outfits were influenced by AtG?

I've said that before.

But I wouldn't say they pioneered it. That's implying that they were the first to play that style. Bands like Spawn Of Possession were influenced by Cannibal Corpse and adopted bits and pieces, but they're hardly the same.

I consider AtG the pioneers because (correct me if I'm wrong) they were the first band with that sound to amass a large following; likewise, they were the first band with that sound to influence on a large scale a new generation of musicians.

Actually, their sound drastically changed from their old albums to Slaughter Of The Soul, and In Flames and Dark Tranquillity had both been playing in a style more consistent with ATG's swansong.

Wasn't Slaughter their most popular album, though?

Yes. Doesn't change the fact that their previous 3 were completely different.

Look, this is going nowhere so I'll say it one last time; ATG is not a metalcore band, no aspect of their sound is metalcore. Parts of their sound have been taken by bands OTHER THAN ATG and made into metalcore. This again, does not make ATG metalcore in any way, shape, or form.

The only important thing is that Converge > any other band listed in this thread.

There weren't that spectacular of bands mentioned in this thread.

Crestfallen > Converge

STOP BEING WRONG!

lol I like them a lot but nooooooo wayyyyyy man.

Oh, I forgot, I need to type in E-Prime:

I perceive Crestfallen's music to exist as a more audibly and emotionally satisfying entity than Converge's.

best post you've ever made.

lolol good response.