But you don't believe that early metalcore outfits were influenced by AtG?

I've said that before.

But I wouldn't say they pioneered it. That's implying that they were the first to play that style. Bands like Spawn Of Possession were influenced by Cannibal Corpse and adopted bits and pieces, but they're hardly the same.

I consider AtG the pioneers because (correct me if I'm wrong) they were the first band with that sound to amass a large following; likewise, they were the first band with that sound to influence on a large scale a new generation of musicians.

Actually, their sound drastically changed from their old albums to Slaughter Of The Soul, and In Flames and Dark Tranquillity had both been playing in a style more consistent with ATG's swansong.

Wasn't Slaughter their most popular album, though?

Yes. Doesn't change the fact that their previous 3 were completely different.

Look, this is going nowhere so I'll say it one last time; ATG is not a metalcore band, no aspect of their sound is metalcore. Parts of their sound have been taken by bands OTHER THAN ATG and made into metalcore. This again, does not make ATG metalcore in any way, shape, or form.

The only important thing is that Converge > any other band listed in this thread.

There weren't that spectacular of bands mentioned in this thread.

Crestfallen > Converge

STOP BEING WRONG!

lol I like them a lot but nooooooo wayyyyyy man.