VEGANGELICA

Since moderators closed katzy's thread on Dan Mangan, I'm replying here to her post about his song, "Basket," that she feels is the saddest song ever.

http://www.musicbanter.com/indie-alt...ml#post1245266

Katzy, here is my reply:

I took your dare, because I love music dares and I wondered if I would feel depressed by this song...but I listened and wasn't depressed by it. Here are some of the reasons I didn't find the song depressing:

First of all, the man actually grows old! He doesn't die young! That is so fortunate. Yes, aging is hard...but he isn't in excruciating pain (yet). When someone dies young without having a chance for fulfillment, that makes me sad.

Second, the man actually had a child. There must have been many wonderful memories wrapped up in that. And he hasn't lost all his memories yet. That's a positive.

Third, it sounds as if the person (spouse?) to whom the song is sung actually survived so that they had a long life together, at least for much of it. That is lucky. Much worse would be people who wanted to be together, but couldn't.

I do feel the song shows well what it can be like to grow old and lose your abilities. It also shows the sad feeling of unfulfillment about one's life. But how fortunate to have had a chance for a life full of so many emotions and changing perspectives.

I think the song shows that the marital relationship lacked emotional intimacy or fell apart. I used to feel sad about songs of abandonment...but when you think about it, what would it serve if someone who doesn't want to be with you returned? One relationship lesson I've learned is this: never pine for someone who doesn't want to be with you. Pine for someone who does.

So I feel that the saddest song ever would not be about yearning for someone who doesn't want to be with you, but instead would be about yearning for someone who loved you but was forced to leave, such as due to death, such that you spend the rest of your life longing for a person who will never exist again. That would be the saddest song to me.

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katsy

I actually made the heading --Saddest.Song.Ever.; dare you to listen-- so that someone may actually listen to it. I see so many threads with obscure band/musician names and I just breeze right over-- unless it looks interesting, or I'm bored. So that's what that was about. Also, I do not think the song is about someone not wanting to be with the other. I think it is the exact opposite. I think it is about someone who wants very much to be with their love, but is unable to do so fully.

To me the reason this song is sad and depressing is because it is about dementia and Alzheimer's-- which, like most diseases, is freaking awful. It robs you of your memories and your loved ones.

The song is about aging and losing your memories. I actually heard Mangan explain this: the song "Basket" is about having memories in a basket and you can't keep them in it; they (memories) are spilling out.

"just a bakset full of memories/ and i'm losing more each day it seems" then it goes on, "if I could make it to the street I'd steal a car, or a bike..." The desperation there is just heart wrenching, to me. -- (I've seen my grandmother want to run away from confusion. You're constantly hearing of dementia patients that wander away or get lost)

So the song is about losing everything, but not by your own choice. Your body is turning on you robbing you of your loved ones.

Also, when you age, your family tends to forget about you. Place you in a nursing home, no visits, etc. I believe this song touches on that as well.

The part that always gets me "so i'll brace my self against the wall/ and hope to god that I don't fall..... my hip won't hold/ how did i get so old"

Breaking a hip is, very commonly, a life-ending event in the elderly. It is a hard surgery on the body. It takes a toll, especially for someone with Alzheimer's.
My grandmother, whom I loved like my own mother. I won't go on and on, but she was "it" for me. She passed away recently and suffered from this disease. Also, what sent her over the edge was when she fell and broke her hip.

Dan Mangan wrote this song about his grandparents and well, it hit home.The reason I find it to be so depressing is not only the very personal factor, but it just conveys what it is like to age and lose yourself. While life may have been wonderful and great, you can't remember that. Your scared and just want to remember your grand kids names. Its about lamenting the loss of your youth and your life. Also it's about saying goodbye to your life, your love, etc.

Thanks for listening! I love this song and really wanted to share it.

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Split the Lark-- and you'll find the Music - Emily Dickinson

VEGANGELICA

Thank you for explaining more about the song, katsy.

Described as you describe it, I can see more of the sadness in the song. For example, it wasn't clear to me if the man was entirely alone. Also, it wasn't clear to me how many of his memories he had lost, so when I heard the song I was thinking, "Hey! He still knows who his son is! He remembers he had a dog! He isn't screaming in pain, at 9/10 on the pain scale!" I was comparing his end of life with the situations I've known that are even worse.

I agree with you about the sadness of Alzheimer's. In fact, just yesterday I was talking with a young man who said he worked at an Alzheimer's unit but only stayed for two weeks because it was so depressing. The reason is that so many of the people, as they lost their memories and sense of reality, experienced terror and horrible sadness, he said. It was hard for the young man to cope.

I'm sorry about your grandmother's dying, and I'm thinking how fortunate she was to have you.

When you write, "While life may have been wonderful and great, you can't remember that," I relate very much, because I have seen my father going through this. When you are ill and in pain, the happy times you once experienced evaporate (even if they can be remembered). It is as if they never happened. I wrote a song for my dad and gave him the lyrics months ago that include these lines, because I wanted him to know I see and understand his situation: "You call emergency. Your capsized quality of life is sinking, your options shrinking as memories and pleasures cease to release you and bring relief from your present descent. [...] You struggle in the waves. Now all that I can say if I'm sorry you have to live through this. I'm sorry we're both helpless this Mayday when no worship will save you and no spring will renew health and youth as you're drowning."

I'll listen to more of Dan Mangan (I do like robots! ). Thank you again for taking the time to describe your connection to his song "Basket."

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Surell

Neil Young has some indie in him somewhere, right?

Besides that, The Smalls are pretty damn good, and Crystal Castles are great, not only an electronic group i can really stand but a good one at that.

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Bloozcrooz

I was under the impression Burning Down was Canadas finest?

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<DoctorSoft>: You know life is good when you take Viagra to jack off lol

vktr

I'll just add some superb artists/bands that haven't been mentioned so far:

Alanis Morissette
NoMeansNo
Delerium
Front Line Assembly
Owen Pallett
Diana Krall

Janszoon

Cheater.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

vktr

Just a little bit ... no, I'm not To me FLA is a stripped down version of Skinny Puppy, whereas Delerium's almost pop music (love their early albums though).

Janszoon

I know they sound different, I'm just saying they're the same people.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

vktr

Yes, Bill Leeb. Another two-faced Canadian musician is Devin Townsend (terrific Strapping Young Lad & then his prog stuff).