Yep, it's good to be reminded that good lyrics and good poetry-on-the-page are not the same thing. I imagine we all agree that they share this kind of relationship:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...5T9lA&usqp=CAU

Also we might, as Frownland neatly summarises, "confuse delivery with lyrical quality" in the passion of the moment. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has been swept away by Tutti-Frutti-Ohh-Rutti and thought "This is the best poetry I've ever come across!"

(As some of you might have noticed, I've got a fat book of Dylan lyrics which even has a little built-in ribbon bookmark like you get in a prayerbook. It's interesting to me, partly because the lyrics are in Spanish and English, but I wouldn't want anyone to think that I give it the status of the Bible.)

Yep, that's a good song, though ironically, me and my mates always used to think of it as "a bit of a joke", which was often an element in his lyrics. I suppose what I like about SB is the way his lyrics lurch around unpredicatably between surreal, cryptic, simple and childlike, with meaning and nonsense apparently squabbling over who's in charge.
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Frownland is capable of arguing his position better than most of us, so I feel like we have been short-changed on this one ;) :

There's really not much to elaborate on with a negative opinion like that except that the elements that REM fans enjoy aren't noteworthy for me. It's not like I can take someone's lame ass taste away from them by going into the specifics. Plus I'd have to listen to more REM to inform the more detailed stance. **** that.

I think that's sort of true for REM. With the possible exception of their second album, Reckoning, I think their first six albums are all pretty great. By the time they released Out of Time (the one with "Losing My Religion" on it), I think they were kind of running out of steam and trying to experiment. As a result, that album is very hit-or-miss, but it does have a few really great tracks. They then got their mojo back with Automatic for the People, which is one of their best albums and should have been their swan song. After that, it was all downhill. Monster made me lose interest, and what I've heard of the subsequent albums didn't seem to be an improvement.

For me, the best REM albums are Murmur, Reckoning, Automatic For the People, and New Adventures in Hi-Fi. The ones that era the most disappointing would be Life's Rich Pageant (despite the brilliant Fall On Me), Monster, and some of the albums post Berry's departure (though there are some gems on those albums too).

Damn, Life's Rich Pageant has been one of my favorites of theirs since forever.

So some debate about the later REM albums! I'm afraid I won't reach them for a while myself as my exploration has stalled somewhat. Still, I hope to advance into their discography, because I'm at last learning why they have been so popular.

:laughing: That's more like the Frownland I know!

I like their first two albums a lot, although after that it's kind of just songs to me. But they were always a good singles band.

She's a sad tomato