TheBig3

Grooming is a non-starter. I'll add a disclaimer to the OP.

I loved indie then and now but I still feel like it devolved into formulaic BS. I just watched Meet Me in the Bathroom and it reminded me of how much of a non-formulaic genre it was in, say, 2003. It reminded me of the early 90s when record execs didn't know what the kids wants and signed all sorts of bands with the only criteria being "not hair metal."

And maybe because I was there in my formative years I'm slightly more offended by the Wes Anderson ethos+twee vocals=avocado commercials.

https://youtu.be/N0_9LWiViVo?t=27

I don't think any genre is original. It all comes from somewhere, but I think coming out of nu-metal saturation, Indie felt like we had a bit more variety again like when Soundgarden played after POTUSOA and before CAKE. I don't really pine for those early 2000s, but I do think the genre has not only become commercialized but also just a sad joke of what it was.

• The Stomp Clap Hey
• The Ironic everything
• For reasons I don't completely get I can't stand the Lumineers

It all sounds the same to me now, and it didn't really used to. When I joined this site, My Morning Jacket, TV on the Radio, The White Stripes, Modest Mouse felt like they were putting out non-formulaic stuff. While I do think (as I said in the opener) he's using a too-wide definition, the accusation that indie seems as commercial as bro-country doesn't seem wildly off base. But maybe this is how the Nazi's get you. They say "we had a zooey deschanel youth, and we're being sold a dakota johnson tomorrow" and then you get a pamphlet about white power or something. I don't know. Maybe I just needed to hear Indie get called out for its bull****.

Feel free to tell me I'm an old man yelling at a cloud.

Queen Boo

Every genre or scene or whatever you want to call it once it becomes popular it goes through this period of commercial oversaturation which then causes the whole thing to burn out. It happened to surf rock and psychedelic rock in the 60s, prog rock and disco in the 70s, new wave and glam metal in the 80s, grunge and pop punk in the 90s and emo and indie in the 00s, it's simply the nature of the music industry beast.

Thing is there hasn't really been any completely new genre of rock music in the last 20 or so years, that's not really an indie problem, it's a rock problem, and that's reflected in how much the genre has lost relevancy in recent years, it's just not the primary music young people listen to anymore.

__________________
https://www.twitch.tv/drrobuttnik

TheBig3

Do you find that the amount of young people who "aren't into music" has increased?

Queen Boo

I dunno man, I'm gonna be 40 in 4 years and I was out of touch with youth culture even when I was young.

But I doubt it, zoomers have a wide range of interests just like any other generation before them, from what I've seen they're just not as into rock music as they are into electronic or hip hop, and due to the pandemic and this being the era of live streaming they may not be as interested in going to live shows, which is something I never cared for myself.

I have no idea what the future holds for music, only time will tell.

__________________
https://www.twitch.tv/drrobuttnik

Lisnaholic

I'd say yes to this idea in general, but would suggest a modification about the whole thing burning out. That may ring true to people like Big3 who were into the genre during the early days, but don't forget that Indie music is also there, available to people like me who came across it in about 2015 and found a sprawling diverse genre that includes some pop stylings with wide appeal and also the early bands that Big3 is enthusing about.

A parallel to me is the career of Pink Floyd: they started out playing improvised pyschedelic music in small underground clubs, went on to fill stadiums with polished, precise Dark Side Of The Moon rock. Some people say Floyd sold out, but plenty more came late to the party and enjoyed not only Floyd's more accessible later material, but the bands that proliferated in their wake.

I wouldn't do that, Big 3, but in the nicest possible way I might suggest that you are an old-timer who wants to wind back the clock to your glory days and you are forgetting that plenty of Indie music that sounds stale to you is going to sound fresh to late-comers like me.

Also, strictly speaking, I would query the word you used in your original question: "consumerist" = "characterized by a preoccupation with the acquisition of consumer goods." I haven't noticed that as a theme running through the Indie music I've listened to. If Indie music is now commercially successful, then it's just joined many other genres, like blues, which these days is a musical product, bought, sold and downloaded, rather than a protest against the hardships of slavery.

__________________
"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

SGR

I'm really not the biggest indie fan, but I found a fair few indie albums last year that I really loved. Per your comment Big3 about indie today not being original and sounding the same, I guess I don't agree. I certainly don't find that it's becoming overly commercialized. Sure, some indie bands today score a big hit or two, but it's the same as it was back in 2003 with the bands you mentioned.

Per the tangential discussion about what music was popular in different decades - and what young people are listening to (or not listening to) - it seems like right now there's not really any kind of unified musical zeitgeist that all young people listen to and engage with. Hip-hop really dominated the mid 2000s, early/mid 2010s. I think it's still the most streamed genre on Spotify (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), but I feel like it's reaching that stage that rock music did in the early/mid 2000s. There's still some great rap albums getting released, but it seems like it's getting a bit stale. Add to that there's no obvious standard-bearer in rap, at least one that's getting constant airplay everywhere. Kendrick I suppose is the closest thing. Back in the early '00s, Eminem and 50 Cent were everywhere. In the mid/late '00s Kanye was everywhere. Early/mid 2010s, Drake was everywhere. But it just doesn't seem like the genre has that kind of ubiquity anymore. Maybe there's no relation, but it feels like with the rise of social media and streaming services (and algorithms), people have become more fractured and isolated and so are their music choices. Instead of radio play/music videos being a driving force of what's popular, young people nowadays start with some songs they like on Youtube or Spotify and the respective algorithms will help them branch out spiderweb fashion to stuff they also might like based on their initial input. I know we've discussed this at least a few times on here before.

Here's a sample platter from the indie albums I was talking about from last year:









I will say, I think during the pandemic, electronic music and house music specifically experienced a bit of a rennaisance in creativity and output and I think it's still continuing today:

Lisnaholic

Thanks for putting up some songs to illustrate the discussion, SGR. I think I liked your first and last selections best.

Here's the opening track, representative of the Tune-yards 2021 album, Sketchy. I'm calling this recent Indie music that packs a punch until anyone contradicts me.

__________________
"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

jadis

Personally I would avoid this language like the plague unless sexual politics as miserable, repressive, coercive, invasive, judgmental, hysterical, paranoid etc etc as that of conservatives is what you want. But that's just me.

Queen Boo

He met his wife through Tumblr when she was around 17 and he was in his mid 30s, even if you don't think grooming is the right word you have to admit that's pretty f*cking sus.

__________________
https://www.twitch.tv/drrobuttnik

SGR

people still use Tumblr?