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Old 11-01-2007, 01:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default It's a shame...

I went to a record store and tried to buy Take Five by Dave Brubeck and the record store didn't have it. It was once the greatest selling Jazz albums of all time and now they don't have it. It's a Shame. They also didn't have Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Soon in the Jazz section is only going to have pop standards no actual Jazz. In music theory in college we go over why some Jazz composers where so brilliant. I've liked Jazz for a while and recently found out my Dad does too. It once so popular (in my Dad's day) and now it seems like it's dying. The real sad thing is while alot of Jazz was pop not of all it was. Miles and Brubeck were geniuses with rhythmn using synocopation to create dissonance rather than the traditional classical way of using harmony. Soon the only place you'll hear about those guys will be in college like so many other classical composers (i.e. Prokofiev, Saite, Stravinsky, Josquin to name a few). It's a shame.
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Old 11-01-2007, 07:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It really is a shame...

I agree, jazz, real jazz- not Bolton, seems to fading. I think it has a lot to do with the short attention spans of the Spears generation. Music has been devalued, and is now 'Sonic wallpaper' or backround noise for other activities.
People aren't willing to 'Just listen' for 40 min. or so and pay attention to what's going on. Lots of people who come over to spin to lp's comment after how much they enjoyed listening as an activity, not just sound.
I also think the crossover points are suffering with industry values on sales not quality. Tool or Volta fans need more access to King Crimson and other older prog. I remember hearing alot of Allman Brother's band type guitar stuff in Coltrane and Davis on first listenings. (Of course it's the other way around, but most of us as our tastes widen work backwards)
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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/rant

Seems to be fading? Used to be popular? Enlighten me, why are jazz composers so brilliant? Could they compose an argument with a vocabulary larger than the average American second grade student?

Out of the three of us, I'm apparently the only one who's looking. I don't see any issue with the current state of jazz. And furthermore I don't see any issues you've raised except for these two minor ones:

1. Jazz doesn't get played on Casey's top 40 any longer and kids don't troll the mall skatting.

2. That you needed to flex the minor amount of jazz knowledge you had and decided to come flex it over this pressing issue.

I know of at least 7 places in this city where I can see a jazz band play. I heard new jazz stuff on a fairly regular basis not only from bands who are stand alone, but in the influences of countless bands that come cropping up all over. And everyone knows that should jazz have a massive overnight revival, there would a whole new argument about how it isn't real jazz; or pure jazz; or how all these kids that like [the green day of jazz] don't know what jazz is or anything about real jazz.

Maybe I'm being a little over aggressive here, but I can't honestly believe that anyone who listens to jazz has a problem getting jazz music. They have three major festivals in North America that I can think of off the top of my head and I'm sure theres countless more. There is probably about 42 jazz bands playing every day in New Orleans.

What i think is that people who aren't jazz fans or rather who don't actively seek it out would like it brought to your door step. Well normally I'd tell you tough luck, but if you're reading this, you've found MusicBanter where all you have to do is hang on for the ride and someone will do all the work for you.
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Old 11-01-2007, 11:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog View Post
/rant

Seems to be fading? Used to be popular? Enlighten me, why are jazz composers so brilliant? Could they compose an argument with a vocabulary larger than the average American second grade student?

Out of the three of us, I'm apparently the only one who's looking. I don't see any issue with the current state of jazz. And furthermore I don't see any issues you've raised except for these two minor ones:

1. Jazz doesn't get played on Casey's top 40 any longer and kids don't troll the mall skatting.

2. That you needed to flex the minor amount of jazz knowledge you had and decided to come flex it over this pressing issue.

I know of at least 7 places in this city where I can see a jazz band play. I heard new jazz stuff on a fairly regular basis not only from bands who are stand alone, but in the influences of countless bands that come cropping up all over. And everyone knows that should jazz have a massive overnight revival, there would a whole new argument about how it isn't real jazz; or pure jazz; or how all these kids that like [the green day of jazz] don't know what jazz is or anything about real jazz.

Maybe I'm being a little over aggressive here, but I can't honestly believe that anyone who listens to jazz has a problem getting jazz music. They have three major festivals in North America that I can think of off the top of my head and I'm sure theres countless more. There is probably about 42 jazz bands playing every day in New Orleans.

What i think is that people who aren't jazz fans or rather who don't actively seek it out would like it brought to your door step. Well normally I'd tell you tough luck, but if you're reading this, you've found MusicBanter where all you have to do is hang on for the ride and someone will do all the work for you.
Your explaining my point perfectly, thank you. Yes their are 42 (or when I was there alot more) bands playing at New Orleans. But to find great Jazz bands nowadays you have to be in New Orleans. You say can the compose an argument with a vocabulary above a second grader? You do realize that in Music Theory you study two types of music (actually five or six depending on whether you took some class about Josquin). Jazz and Classical (Baroque, Classical, Romantic and Neoclassical). Why do you think Jazz is in there? Because it's old Music? Of course not it's because the greatest people at rhythm who have ever lived were Jazz composer. They used Synocopation (empasizing notes that are not on the beat) to create Dissoance. It's not easy to do and thats completely apart from the many Jazz composers brilliant chord progressions (I think John Coltrane was the best at this). 3 major festivals (and at the New Orleans festival only one tent acutally has Jazz)!? Do you know how many classical festivals there are? No it's damn hard to count. There was an age when Jazz was much bigger than classical. I have no problem getting Jazz off itunes of other sources of questionable legality. I'm saying that they didn't have Take Five by Dave Brubeck one of the all time greatest selling Jazz albums. That's infuriating. Seriously that would be like not having a single recording of Beethoven's Ninth. It just shouldn't happen.
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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There's lots of great jazz in Chicago too. Just because you're studying music theory doesn't mean you've suddenly discovered the secret to what makes music good or that everyone should listen to classical and jazz. There are rock bands that are just as syncopated and dissonant as any of your jazz greats... everyone is going to listen what they're going to listen to and chances are they don't need you to educate them. Also, I don't know where you developed this elitist view that classical composers are only being discussed in colleges... there are plenty of people interested in classical music who aren't studying music theory.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Typical student

Goes on & on & on about the decline of society in some kind of long winded thesis about some everyday non event & it never once occurred to him to ask the guy behind the counter to order it for him.
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Old 11-02-2007, 12:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Exodizer View Post
Your explaining my point perfectly, thank you. Yes their are 42 (or when I was there alot more) bands playing at New Orleans. But to find great Jazz bands nowadays you have to be in New Orleans. You say can the compose an argument with a vocabulary above a second grader? You do realize that in Music Theory you study two types of music (actually five or six depending on whether you took some class about Josquin). Jazz and Classical (Baroque, Classical, Romantic and Neoclassical). Why do you think Jazz is in there? Because it's old Music? Of course not it's because the greatest people at rhythm who have ever lived were Jazz composer. They used Synocopation (empasizing notes that are not on the beat) to create Dissoance. It's not easy to do and thats completely apart from the many Jazz composers brilliant chord progressions (I think John Coltrane was the best at this). 3 major festivals (and at the New Orleans festival only one tent acutally has Jazz)!? Do you know how many classical festivals there are? No it's damn hard to count. There was an age when Jazz was much bigger than classical. I have no problem getting Jazz off itunes of other sources of questionable legality. I'm saying that they didn't have Take Five by Dave Brubeck one of the all time greatest selling Jazz albums. That's infuriating. Seriously that would be like not having a single recording of Beethoven's Ninth. It just shouldn't happen.
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Your explaining my point perfectly, thank you. Yes their are 42 (or when I was there alot more) bands playing at New Orleans. But to find great Jazz bands nowadays you have to be in New Orleans.

Agin completely wrong. I live in Pittsburgh and there was just one here recently. It was very good. Also there was one in Liverpool Ohio? i dont remeber town exactly, about 2 months ago. Also if you v ever been to NYC/Chicago theres TONS of great jazz clubs concerts and such.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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There's lots of great jazz in Chicago too. Just because you're studying music theory doesn't mean you've suddenly discovered the secret to what makes music good or that everyone should listen to classical and jazz. There are rock bands that are just as syncopated and dissonant as any of your jazz greats... everyone is going to listen what they're going to listen to and chances are they don't need you to educate them. Also, I don't know where you developed this elitist view that classical composers are only being discussed in colleges... there are plenty of people interested in classical music who aren't studying music theory.
I never said anything about classical music only being studied in college. You must've read my post and not the one above me. I was explaining why Jazz composers are brillant. They moderninzed syncopation, and while there are rock bands that use these techniques it's almost for certain that they have influence from these Jazz guys (or an influence from an influence) and learned it from them. I liked classical music a long time before I ever went to college, but it made me appreciate it alot more. All I orginally posted was it's a shame that Jazz is not going to survive much longer. As for a certain few composers you don't hear about till college let me ask you have you ever heard of Josquin. In his day he was hailed as the greatest musician who ever lived and so much of music that everyone uses to day was invented by him. You got to realize that modern music just isn't as good. Yes there are great Jazz bands still playing while there will continue to be, but when so many people listen to music that is literally the same thing over and over music IS declining. Jazz got it the worst and that's all I ever said.
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Jazz-mmm..nice. Sorry can't get John Thomson from the Fast Show out of my head!
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