Moley, it was directed at alexis on fire.

To the person above me, you are wrong. Maybe people who are socially crippled and need the assurance of others in their group feel the need to subscribe to certain social "scenes" or "groups" personally I am who I am and all my friends are who they are, we recognise each others strenghs and weaknesses, and don't feel the need to reassure each other that we belong or we are "cool" cause we are scene.

Nope. You reassure each other that you belong, or you are "cool" because you're each "individuals". But at least people like myself and Scenes can admit that we belong to a group because we have similarities, rather than claiming that which makes us similar creates us as bipolar opposites. Chavs don't hang around with Goths. Intellectuals don't hang around with ignorami. I don't live in denial.

What the **** is a chav?

You are making an assumption about me that you aren't in the position to make, of course I have things in common with my friends, but we don't go out of our ways to agree with everything everyone else thinks. We don't dress alike, talk alike, or identify with one particular ideology. Doing so, in my opinion is lazy. Think for yourself, be yourself, don't go out of your way to fit in with the herd.

Now your making an assumption about every scene kid.
Do you ever consider they like hanging out with other people that like there music? or that skateboard like them?
They have similar interests big deal.
OH NO IT IMMEDITLY MEANS THEY'RE ALL LAZY AND DON'T THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Cha...en-US:official Google is a glorious thing.

I'm drawing conclusions based on the information you have given.

You're making assumptions about SxEs, in that you're assuming they haven't put thought into their choices, that they don't want to dress the way they do and that they generally don't think for themselves. You're making assumptions that you're not in a position to make (you plainly aren't a SxE yourself and seem compelled to set yourself apart from any subculture. You're extraordinarily like a Goth who goes around saying "I'm an individual, I don't conform to ignoramic mass culture." and then runs off to their similarly minded "non"conformists). I'm basing my statements on broad psychology and the information that you've given me.

We all conform. It helps us get along, even if it's only public compliance. To say that you don't, and to say that you will always dress exactly as you want, talk exactly as you want and voice the precise ideology that you wish to voice is a lie, and a particularly poor one at that.

I dont think thats necessarily true. I hang out with punks, have for along time. I dont dress punk, dont have the haircuts anymore, etc. Levis and Tshirts, its what i wear. I dress like that to shows, parties, even work. I see the kids that go out of their way to dress a certain way, and im assuming those are what you are refering to. Not everyone in a scene does it. True the music and beliefs bring us together, but i doubt any of my friends live like they do to be accepted into a scene, hense the term "conforming". I believe people with the same things in common will inevitably hang out together, but that doesnt mean they will always agree or look a certain way just to fit in.

I don't mean purely in the fashion sense, conformity is the act of doing something in a fashion which is contrary to what you would do in an objective situation so that you better fit in with a group. The majority of the time it's done subconsciously, for example there's a discussion going on and you opt not to say something that you believe could cause abrasion - that is conformity. We choose groups based on temperaments, attitudes and status but we will still avoid doing things that will set us out from the group as that leads to malacceptance.

so youre saying that it is less than likely someone would disagree with a group in order to still feel a part of it? Im not sure how old Moley or Mannequin Republic is, but i know i stopped following the herd years ago, thats what makes me a punk in my mind. I argue agains anarchy not concerned with what the street punks might think, Im all for eating meat and capital punishment no matter what the peace punks might think. My friends are constantly disagreeing with each other because of differant opinions and alot of the times there isnt a conclusion where everyone agrees. Everyone is differant, even if theyre not aware of it yet.

No. I'm saying that someone is not usually willing to push an opinion to the point whereby it will lead to rejection by the group. It is a form of conformity to restrain your views to the point whereby it avoids confrontation. You may have you believes, but when you see mates eating veggie food do you have a go at them for not eating meat? Everytime? I'm assuming you don't, cus they'd get ****ing pissed off in no time. That is conformity.

well, i guess you can see it like that. I see it as a respect for differant beliefs. basically, i do pretty much what i want and others respect me for it, i in turn give the same respect back. My sister in law is a vegetarian, when she comes over, i fix vegetarian food for her and grill meat for me. I dont give her **** for not eating meat, she doesnt give me **** for eating it. So my thinking is, not giving people a hard time isnt for acceptance, its a matter of respect. If someone disrespects me for something i do, bet your ass theyll get it right back. Dont know if youre part of a scene or not, but thats pretty much how we do things here. give respect and people will give it. its not a matter of hurting someons feelings, i play shows and poke fun of the "non conformist conformist" how everyone wants to look and be differant but they are all really the same. Ive noticed these same kids eventually grow up and realize that the scene doesnt have set rules. beliefs may bring us together, but its the differances that keep the scene growing. which is what its all about. nobody that i know of wants to stand still.

edit: and a group that feels that strongly towards setting guidelines is not a group i would want to be associated with anyway, thats why im not straight edge or a nazi.