jibber

by a certain duty I'm assuming you mean reproduction? Don't you think with the world's population as it is, and the actual need for population control that's a bit of an outdated argument?

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

ZeppelinAir

yes, well thats just my view, it may be out dated but its without arguement something that man and woman can only do

__________________
not that old signature

jibber

I agree that it is, but I'm just curious as to why that makes any difference on homosexual relations in modern society. We have no need to worry about keeping the population up, we have the opposite problem, so why is that a reason that homosexuality is wrong?

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

ZeppelinAir

ok, maybe i worded my statement wrong, that doesnt make it wrong, you got what i was trying to say, i just dont care for it, i dont hate homosexauls, i just dont care for choice, its a personal belief that all. and there is a problem with over population, but i talking about continuing your family blood line with children

__________________
not that old signature

jibber

ahh, gotcha now. I can see where you're coming from, but I can't say I agree at all. I've never bought the whole "duty to your family" deal. I believe that if you live your life for anyone other than yourself, it's a waste of your free choice, and ultiamately, a waste of a life.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

adidasss

The good old "homosexuality is a choice" theorem. By your logic only people with Downs sindrome could produce offspring with the same condition. I know nothing about genetics so I won't try to defend that theory. I can however tell you about my own experience. The most offensive thing anyone can say to me is that homosexuality is a choice, because it makes me a sadist to choose to go through what I've been through and undoubtedly will be put through by my surroundings. I've never been attracted to women, but I have been so indoctrinated about homosexuality being "wrong, unnatural and gross" that I spent a very long time trying to make sense of who I am and whether or not I'm normal. I could have spent that time much more productively and more happily if it wasn't for closed-minded, stubborn people like yourself.

But for the sake of the argument, even if one was to accept homosexuality was a choice ( which it most certainly isn't ), it still doesn't explain how and why homosexuals are denied certain inalienable human rights if ( and I'm sure even you would agree ) we are not doing society any harm.

Actually, having read most of this thread now, I would say your religion wasn't attacked, you were , however, asked on multiple occasions to explain certain inconsistencies regarding Christians and the way the choose to interpret the Bible as it suits them. One can certainly be a Christian and think homosexuality is normal, it all depends on how you want to interpret the Bible.
Great, now you don't believe bisexuals exist either? At this point I think you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. I find it hard to believe that anyone as intelligent as yourself could really be as stubborn about not accepting pure logic and reasoning. But I understand where you're coming from, I love to get in the face of anyone who says Green Day sucks just because it's the "now" thing to say.

No friend, what we do ask of you is to think for yourself and question what you have undoubtedly been taught, because I doubt you came to all these conclusions on your own ( despite your parents, for instance, being liberal minded, which I'm positive they're not ). I'm positive you would have a very different mindset if some of your family members were gay, just like some of my family members have come to radically different conclusions on homosexuality when they put a face on the issue.

Liberalism yes, hypocracy and idiocy most definitely not. I repeat, you can can be a Christian and gay friendly. You chose another route. Let's not blame the world for being logical.

I presume you also think homosexuality is a choice? If so, read the above.

__________________
“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm

DontRunMeOver

Sexual desires aren't a choice, although acting upon them is. In this debate I'd tend to assume there isn't the suggestion that people should act dishonestly with respects to their sexual desires (meaning to have sex with women when really they are attracted to men or vice-versa).

To believe that homosexual desires were a matter of 'choice', you'd also have to believe that heterosexual desires were a matter of 'choice', which I also find to be both ridiculous and offensive suggestion.

Although I don't believe that people are born straight, *** or bisexual outright, I'd agree with what Ian seemed to be saying, which is that your sexuality is (like everything else) a combination of your genetics and the environment in which you grew up. And both of these factors are beyond a person's control, so there is no way they had any 'choice' in the matter. Maybe if I'd born in Marijan's place I'd be just as *** as he is, maybe if he'd been born in my place he'd be just as straight as I am, or maybe genetic factors would have given a completely different result.

Whatever the case, might I suggest that anybody who proposes the 'homosexuality is choice' case in the future first takes a long, hard look at their own sexuality and considers how this opinion reflects upon them.


HETEROSEXUALITY IS A CHOICE????

__________________

adidasss

I think Oojay was implying the desire itself is a choice, not acting upon it. And not acting upon our sexual desires is as unnatural as they make homosexuality seem. Very good point on heterosexuality then being a choice also, if anyone can choose who they're attracted to, I'm sure most gays would have chosen to be attracted to the opposite sex, just because life would have been much easier. And just for the sake of the argument, Oojay should try to be attracted to men, see how that goes.

But I have to say, I don't see how the environment I grew up in could have had anything to do with me being gay. I should have been straight as an arrow given the general climate surrounding homosexuality in my family, village, island and country. My brother grew up in the same environment and he's as straight as they get. That's why I'm leaning more towards the theory that sexual preferences are determined at conception, and there's no amount of heterosexual indoctrination that could turn someone straight, I'm living proof of that.

__________________
“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm

DontRunMeOver

I don't agree with that. The only person that can grow up in your specific environment was you. Comparison with your brother's sexuality isn't completely valid because even though he was born to the same family, in the same place, learnt the same language and all that, he wasn't born at exactly the same time (that's be true even if you had been twins), his name isn't Marijan (I assume) and he hasn't experienced anything from the exact same viewpoint that you have experienced it.

Let's just suppose that at the age of 13 you saw a really hot guy soaping himself up in some place with public showers. Your brother didn't see the same guy, at the same age and in the same place and it's from these subtle differences in your formative environment that I personally think big differences in your final sexuality can result.

Anyway, your brother's genetics should be 50% similar to yours so wouldn't that suggest that if he's 100% straight then you're 50% straight by the genetics argument?

__________________

~nutshell~

ITA

__________________
Just not enough.
I need more.
Nothing seems to satisfy.
I said, I don't want it.
I just need it.
To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.