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DontRunMeOver · 01-10-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

But I have to say, I don't see how the environment I grew up in could have had anything to do with me being gay. I should have been straight as an arrow given the general climate surrounding homosexuality in my family, village, island and country. My brother grew up in the same environment and he's as straight as they get. That's why I'm leaning more towards the theory that sexual preferences are determined at conception, and there's no amount of heterosexual indoctrination that could turn someone straight, I'm living proof of that.

I don't agree with that. The only person that can grow up in your specific environment was you. Comparison with your brother's sexuality isn't completely valid because even though he was born to the same family, in the same place, learnt the same language and all that, he wasn't born at exactly the same time (that's be true even if you had been twins), his name isn't Marijan (I assume) and he hasn't experienced anything from the exact same viewpoint that you have experienced it.

Let's just suppose that at the age of 13 you saw a really hot guy soaping himself up in some place with public showers. Your brother didn't see the same guy, at the same age and in the same place and it's from these subtle differences in your formative environment that I personally think big differences in your final sexuality can result.

Anyway, your brother's genetics should be 50% similar to yours so wouldn't that suggest that if he's 100% straight then you're 50% straight by the genetics argument?

adidasss · 01-10-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DontRunMeOver

I don't agree with that. The only person that can grow up in your specific environment was you. Comparison with your brother's sexuality isn't completely valid because even though he was born to the same family, in the same place, learnt the same language and all that, he wasn't born at exactly the same time (that's be true even if you had been twins), his name isn't Marijan (I assume) and he hasn't experienced anything from the exact same viewpoint that you have experienced it.

Let's just suppose that at the age of 13 you saw a really hot guy soaping himself up in some place with public showers. Your brother didn't see the same guy, at the same age and in the same place and it's from these subtle differences in your formative environment that I personally think big differences in your final sexuality can result.

Anyway, your brother's genetics should be 50% similar to yours so wouldn't that suggest that if he's 100% straight then you're 50% straight by the genetics argument?

Nope, I disagree, to play off your example, even if I had seen a really hot soapy guy at 13 and he hadn't, I believe that if I had not been gay, that event would have gone unnoticed. I understand that our lives haven't been exactly alike, but subtle differences, in my mind, could not have made us into such different people as we are. Genetics played a much more important role.

And as far as our genes being similar, if I'm not mistaken, chimpanzees have about 98% of the same DNA as we do, so a very tiny percentage is needed to make a humongous difference. I have 4 siblings, if my oldest sister has black hair, why does my youngest one have blond hair, by your logic, shouldn't she be at least 50% black haired? To use the Downs syndrome as an example again, shouldn't someone who has a brother or sister with the condition also be 50 percent afflicted? Flawed logic no?

DontRunMeOver · 01-10-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Nope, I disagree, to play off your example, even if I had seen a really hot soapy guy at 13 and he hadn't, I believe that if I had not been gay, that event would have gone unnoticed. I understand that our lives haven't been exactly alike, but subtle differences, in my mind, could not have made us into such different people as we are. Genetics played a much more important role.

I agree that genetics play a big role and that they predispose you to notice things which other people don't and not notice things which other people do.

Please ignore the hot soapy guy idea, because that was probably a bit silly and I'll ignore your Down's syndrome analogy, that's a chromosonal disorder man! Are you saying that you're gay due to a chromosonal disorder?? What are you proposing, they should start up gay school for gay kids to learn about things more suited to the gay learning style??!

For the record, Down's sydrome is caused by having an extra chromosome or part of an extra chromosome. This means that the chromosomes have actually moved around and says nothing about the content of those chromosomes, whereas the genetic factors in the similarities and differences between siblings which you've mentioned would be entirely to do with those chromosomes.

EDIT: I was looking up about Down's sydrome and on the 'list of famous people with downs syndrome the first time I looked I thought it said Chris De Burgh was one.

adidasss · 01-10-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DontRunMeOver

I agree that genetics play a big role and that they predispose you to notice things which other people don't and not notice things which other people do.

Please ignore the hot soapy guy idea, because that was probably a bit silly and I'll ignore your Down's syndrome analogy, that's a chromosonal disorder man! Are you saying that you're gay due to a chromosonal disorder??

No no, I chose it as an example because it's caused by genetics. Like I said before, I know practically nothing of genetics, but it seemed loosely connected. I guess having an extra chromosome isn't the same as having a certain gene ( as some scientist are now suggesting ). Moving on.

Truth is, I have no idea why I'm gay, and I'd rather not keep talking out of my ass. There are much smarter people out there that still haven't figured it out so it's silly of us to try and act like we do. Maybe it's environmental, maybe it's genetic...I'm sure when they finally figure it out, they'll make a big fuss about it. Although an interesting dilemma would be, if they figure out the cause, would it be ethical to change the child according to the parent's preferences?

DontRunMeOver · 01-10-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Truth is, I have no idea why I'm gay, and I'd rather not keep talking out of my ass. There are much smarter people out there that still haven't figured it out so it's silly of us to try and act like we do. Maybe it's environmental, maybe it's genetic...I'm sure when they finally figure it out, they'll make a big fuss about it. Although an interesting dilemma would be, if they figure out the cause, would it be ethical to change the child according to the parent's preferences?

I don't know about ethical but, if there really was a 'gay gene', or combination of genes, then it would seem there would be some reason why the gene persisted (despite the fact that a 'gay gene' would tend to stop itself being passed on, by dissuading reproduction of the individual carrying it). It's been suggested in the past that this 'gay gene' also gives other people other talents which are useful for human survival which is why it is still around, so it would be a bad idea for doctors to allow people to choose against it in their children (if you assume the majority of straight parents would prefer their child to be straight than gay all other things being equal).

Having said that, I really believe there is no 'gay gene', although probably many of the factors which determine somebody's sexuality are set in place so early and can be so unpredictable that the result is not very different to if the cause had been purely genetic.