Music Banter - Abortion

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I think video is telling

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Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 2208641)

Yes, Celladorina, there are so many potential horror-story scenarios that could come out of this Supreme Court ruling. I have been moved by female presenters on tv, explaining how their own daughters have been telephoning them in tears or in fury. That's not a common, across-the-board reaction to any legal decision; families weeping and consoling each other like that.

Interesting idea about the white breeding program! Luckily, I suspect the sentence in bold won't happen. I think Europe, and the world, has grown out of its post-war America worship and will see the US as what it is on this issue: a weird anomaly among developed countries.
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You argue your point very well, Batlord. I'm not an expert either in politics or US political history, but two things I would question are:-
i) While "the egalitarianism of the left" is surely a worthy goal, I don't see much evidence of socialism working well in the world, or of existing as a political force in the USA, so it is something of a hypothetical.
ii) Dreaming big about big changes is important in its way, but working from what there is in the US today, this looks to me like a great thing to strive for too:-

Isn't this the kind of system that European countries have been fine-tuning for decades? Haven't they built longer-enduring, fairer societies by that approach than countries that have embraced socialism?

So pretty much as rubber soul says:-

I also share your attitude here, Batlord:-

I think we've been round this carousel of differing opinions before, so I would be happy to move along any time that you are ready to.

Except those European countries are still the most socialist countries we have. And the socialist aspects work, but these countries are far from ideal and capitalism certainly has a big role in that. Countries like Russia or China or all the other countries that have been used as 'socialism bad' examples were never truly socialist, and also consider the difference between socialism and communism.

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Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2208667)

Our electoral system just gives too much power to uneducated hicks...

Uneducated hicks, or whatever you want to call the downtrodden, have always been a problem for democratic political sanity. An independent, educated public service able to fearlessly criticise governments is one solution. In the US so many rabid, right wing lunatics have been handed power within that branch of Gov’t it’s amazing the US media haven't drawn attention to the obscene contradiction of a supposedly free enterprise ideology allowing any such imbalance of power.
As if often the case today, Ayn Rand is rolling in her grave.

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Originally Posted by Marie Monday (Post 2208663)

Yes, all true, Marie. I'm embarrassed about how bad I am at using political labels correctly, so went back to a short definition:-

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Socialism is, broadly speaking, a political and economic system in which property and the means of production are owned in common, typically controlled by the state or government. Socialism is based on the idea that common or public ownership of resources and means of production leads to a more equal society.

So European countries typically have capitalist economies with socialist elements - most noticably in healthcare, education and a handful of state industries. That sounds about right, doesn't it?
At the same time, confusing the issue, right-wing politicians in the USA seem to use the term "socialism" as if it were as threatening as the old Reds-Under-The-Beds Communism, which it clearly is not.

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Originally Posted by Queen Boo (Post 2208658)

The primary goal has always been controlling women, but there are other motivators like rising birthrates, creating more future members of the workforce and military, etc.

Some feminists will get REALLY mad at me for suggesting there's any other reason though.

that's an interesting angle lol. Abortion rates have been declining for a while though. I don't know this will really do much for the birthrate.

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Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2208722)

that's an interesting angle lol. Abortion rates have been declining for a while though. I don't know this will really do much for the birthrate.

I'm not sure the "save the white race" crowd goes in for facts.

Sure they do. As long as they're alternative ones.

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Originally Posted by TheBig3 (Post 2208754)

I'm not sure the "save the white race" crowd goes in for facts.

i don't believe that's the motivation. It's the same old school religious thinking that had people opposing roe in the 70s that has them opposing it today, for the most part. People think it's killing a baby. It's really not that hard to understand imo.

But I just think it makes for an interesting conspiracy angle.

Of, course, with that logic, the white supremacists would eventually be outnumbered.

Yeah, I think the initial thing after Roe v. Wade was that they simply thought abortion was morally wrong. I don't think they were really thinking about race.