jwb

Nah I mean groups like al Qaeda clearly have a religious side to them that is not purely political

They were inspired by Sayyid Qutb and the likes who were similarly convinced 20th century Western culture was highly decadent, racist, and hypersexual.

If you try to base it strictly on the geopolitical view that they are opposing oppressive Western foreign policy, that begs the question why did al Qaeda denounce the US for when they finally decided to do something about the genocide in Indonesia, after the US sat by and let the Indonesians commit genocide against a local minority.

jwb

You shouldn't be so quick to always assume you know the answer

He came to that conclusion after visiting the US. He then went back to Egypt and preached that message, even against the local pan Arab secular govt. He was jailed and eventually tortured for his out spoken calls for terror against the state. At which point he further radicalized his views and spelled out the supposed logic behind murdering innocent civilians in favor of the cause.

jwb

He inspired them both through religion and circumstance

jwb

Yet when Russia invaded the jihadis took our help gladly

And when Indonesia started murdering the people out east Timor and we finally caved in and suggested they stop, we were rebuked by bin laden & co for " meddling in Muslim afairs"

jwb

^is he aware that Bernie is a blatant stereotypical jew?

And when I clicked this thread, I thought you resurrected the Islamic terror debate. Ftr reading back over it I don't think I articulated myself properly.

The main reason people in the middle East hate America is because of our foreign policy. But that's not the main reason they are turning towards religious extremism. That comes down to a basic difference in cultures.

That's why Islamic radicals like Sayyid fought against the secular regimes of their given country. Because those regimes were percieved as turning their back on Islamic principles.

That's exactly the argument he constructed to justify slaughtering seemingly innocent women, children and fellow Muslims in acts of terror. By supporting/being complicit with an apostate (secular) state, all of those seemingly innocent civilians were actually quite guilty of apostasy, which the Hadiths prescribe the death penalty for.

jwb

There are different interpretations of any religion, political ideology, or cultural norm for that matter.

The problem with shifting the emphasis to culture while down playing religion is that religion actually plays a massive role in shaping culture.

Especially with regard to Islam. Islam is probably the biggest single source of cultural impact on the current Muslim world in the last 2000 years. It's the reason that Arabic is spoken widely outside of Saudi Arabia.

Conversely, Arab Bedouin culture went a long way in terms of shaping Islam. That's once again why Arabic is spoken so widely. Why the Quran is only considered to be in its pure form when in Arabic; many Muslims who don't speak Arabic still opt to learn to recite the Quran in Arabic without actually understanding the words rather than read a translation.

It's the reason that Western converts to the religion often change their names to something Arabic and wear clothes based on Arabian culture.

Also, I don't understand why liberal defenders of Islam somehow find it "less racist" to say that these people stone adulterers based on their "culture" rather than based on their religion. So it's alright to condemn a culture but not a religion? It's a poorly thought out form of apologetics.

As for the major 3 abrahamic faiths being identical.. not quite but they are similar in many ways. The main distinction is that most jews and Christians stopped following their holy books so closely where as the Muslim world is still keeping it real. Really real.

jwb

Not just when they were poorer. When they still adhered more closely to certain passages in the Bible.

Latin America is plenty poor yet they aren't exacting biblical forms of justice.

And I find your response somewhat lazy. Explain to me why it's racist to condemn Islam but it's not racist to defend Islam by saying it's not the religion it's just their backward culture?

jwb

Yes they're largely Catholic... Yet they aren't typically conducting witch trials. That's my point.

Also America is much more religious than a country like China yet also much richer.

Btw you still didn't answer my last question.

jwb

I get that you are avoiding the question

South America is violent in ways that have nothing to with religion

The middle East, even during peacetime, executes people in barbaric ways based directly on their religious doctrine

And we used to do the same in the West. We just stopped really following those doctrines

jwb

That's not why people adhere to religious law tho.