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[jwb]

I assumed we were talking about humans. How do you distinguish morality from normal behavior?

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by jwb

I assumed we were talking about humans. How do you distinguish morality from normal behavior?

Why do you think morality isn't normal behavior?

[jwb]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I think you really need to define what you personally mean by morality too.

Some people tend to think morality is a code set by social standards when I just think what we be believe to be moral tends to be influenced by social standards.

However I believe morality to be about preventing the most harm and suffering as possible and to cause the opposite. Which differs from human to human so often times what societies try to push as 'morality' is actually immoral.

ah, I see. That's not how we (or any other species) are wired. That's basically just utilitarian morality, which is a relatively recent human invention in philosophy which doesn't reflect how we actually seem to be wired to act.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by jwb

ah, I see. That's not how we (or any other species) are wired. That's basically just utilitarian morality, which is a relatively recent human invention in philosophy which doesn't reflect how we actually seem to be wired to act.

I don't think you actually know that. I don't think anybody actually knows that.

[jwb]

I'm basing it on observable behavior. If you want to retreat into solipsism then you are just avoiding reality.

[Lucem Ferre]

I think the way morality has evolved completely reflects my theory on empathy. We used to be more moral towards our tribe or our family because it's easier to see our selves in them. But as awareness and knowledge expands through our ability to self analyze, we start seeing our selves in other groups that aren't superficially or immediately connected to our own identity.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by jwb

I'm basing it on observable behavior. If you want to retreat into solipsism then you are just avoiding reality.

You're basing it on assumptions derived from observable behavior with no real proof to the claim.

Saying that I'm retreating into solipsism is a huge strawman and it made me have to read. Oh, ****, I'm already reading.

[jwb]

I don't think you are taking into account how evolution actually works. How would that work, genetically?

We evolved in the tribal context based on kin selection and reciprocity because
1) kin selection - your close relatives share your genes
2) the people in close proximity to you make for useful and reliable trading partners.

The selective pressures that selected for these traits made basic assumptions that are no longer true, but were true for the vast majority of human history

E.g. that your brother is always going to be genetically related to you. You can have an adopted brother and feel the same way about them. That's not cause you're more evolved. It's cause the forces that drove your evolution simply assumed brothers were related and, in the vast majority of cases, they were.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by jwb

I don't think you are taking into account how evolution actually works. How would that work, genetically?

We evolved in the tribal context based on kin selection and reciprocity because
1) kin selection - your close relatives share your genes
2) the people in close proximity to you make for useful and reliable trading partners.

The selective pressures that selected for these traits made basic assumptions that are no longer true, but were true for the vast majority of human history

E.g. that your brother is always going to be genetically related to you. You can have an adopted brother and feel the same way about them. That's not cause you're more evolved. It's cause the forces that drove your evolution simply assumed brothers were related and, in the vast majority of cases, they were.

When I say evolved I don't mean in a genetic sense, I mean how our understanding of morality has developed. I don't think morality is genetic, I think it's a product of varying things that are genetic that I can't pin point because I'm not a neurologist. I think time has given us the ability to analyze ourselves and gain a better understanding of morality just like it has in many different things.

[Marie Monday]

Originally Posted by jwb

ah, I see. That's not how we (or any other species) are wired. That's basically just utilitarian morality, which is a relatively recent human invention in philosophy which doesn't reflect how we actually seem to be wired to act.

That's negative utilitarism, to be exact. I think that it is actually what most modern people's morals are based on (that's how it is for me anyway), but it's probably true that our natural instincts obey a different morality: one that's purely based on the successful survival of ourselves and our kin. However, I guess that nurture has wired us to try to act utilitarian.
By the way, it's funny how much human morals change throughout history