Music Banter - Last Bought

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ok but that article you quoted is doing exactly what i mentioned, ignoring context and manipulating his quotes ro fit their narritive. in fact he addressed this exact issue on his blog. i don't expect you to read it all but here's a snippet on the torture quote.

Quote:

In one section of the book (pp. 192−199), I briefly discuss the ethics of torture and collateral damage in times of war, arguing that collateral damage is worse than torture across the board. Rather than appreciate just how bad I think collateral damage is in ethical terms, some readers have mistakenly concluded that I take a cavalier attitude toward the practice of torture. I do not. Nevertheless, there are extreme circumstances in which I believe that practices like “water-boarding” may be not only ethically justifiable, but ethically necessary. This is not the same as saying that they should be legal (Crimes such as trespassing and theft may sometimes be ethically necessary, though everyone has an interest in keeping them illegal).

I am not alone in thinking that there are potential circumstances in which the use of torture would be ethically justifiable. The liberal Senator Charles Schumer has publicly stated that most U.S. senators would support torture to find out the location of a ticking time bomb. Such scenarios have been widely criticized as unrealistic. But realism is not the point of these thought experiments. The point is that unless your argument rules out torture in idealized cases, you don’t have a categorical argument against torture. As nuclear and biological terrorism become increasingly possible, it is in everyone’s interest for men and women of goodwill to determine what should be done if a person appears to have operational knowledge of an imminent atrocity (and may even claim to possess such knowledge), but won’t otherwise talk about it.

My argument for the limited use of coercive interrogation (“torture” by another name) is essentially this: If you think it is ever justifiable to drop bombs in an attempt to kill a man like Osama bin Laden (and thereby risk killing and maiming innocent men, women, and children), you should think it may sometimes be justifiable to water-board a man like Osama bin Laden (and risk abusing someone who just happens to look like him). It seems to me that however one compares the practices of water-boarding high-level terrorists and dropping bombs, dropping bombs always comes out looking worse in ethical terms. And yet, most people tacitly accept the practice of modern warfare while considering it taboo to even speak about the possibility of practicing torture. It is important to point out that my argument for the restricted use of torture does not make a travesty like Abu Ghraib look any less sadistic or stupid. I consider our mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib to be patently unethical. I also think it was one of the most damaging blunders in the last century of U.S. foreign policy. Nor have I ever seen the wisdom or necessity of denying proper legal counsel (and access to evidence) to prisoners held at Guantánamo Bay. Indeed, I consider much of what occurred under Bush and Cheney—the routine abuse of ordinary prisoners, the practice of “extraordinary rendition,” etc.—to be a terrible stain upon our nation.

Some people believe that while collateral damage may be worse than torture, they are independent evils, and one problem sheds no light upon the other. However, they are not independent in principle. In fact, it is easy to see how information gained through torture might mitigate the risk of collateral damage. If one found oneself with an apparent choice between torturing a known terrorist and bombing civilians, torturing the terrorist should seem like the more ethical option. But most people’s intuitions seem to run the other way. In fact, very few critics of my collateral-damage argument even acknowledge how strangely asymmetrical our worries about torture and collateral damage are. A conversation about the ethics of torture can scarcely be had, and yet collateral damage is often reported in the context of a “successful” military operation as though it posed no ethical problem whatsoever. The case of Baitullah Mehsud, killed along with 12 others (including his wife and mother-in-law), is a perfect example: Had his wife been water-boarded in order to obtain the relevant intelligence, rather than merely annihilated by a missile, we can be sure that torrents of outrage would have ensued.

im not even saying i necessarily agree with him, im just trying to clarify here. if you disagree with him that's fine but it's clear some of the reasons you dislike him stem from the media's misrepresentation of him, which i dont believe is very fair.

the problem with him justifying torture for men who are 'like osama bin laden' is the fact that many of the men that america tortures for being 'like osama bin laden' are in fact NOT 'like osama bin laden' and get held without any evidence and without even a trial but because they look like dirty muzzies and were probably in the wrong place at the wrong time but hey i guess lifes not fair

still nothing justifies him making excuses for racial profiling or for being so defensive of israel and its war crimes

read a book

sam harris is a pseudo intellectual

sure but i think he definitely has a point regarding dropping bombs. how many casualities died during obama's presidency through drone strikes? whenever i bring that up people call me a right-winger and an obama hater but if 1/4 of the casualties had of been tortured, everyone would care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1807248)

i never said dropping bombs wasn't wrong

dropping bombs on people = wrong

torturing people especially those who you have arrested with no evidence and without a trial = wrong

its not that complicated

you know that you can be against dropping bombs AND against torturing innocent people, yeah?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1807241)

im not even saying i necessarily agree with him, im just trying to clarify here.

Got this gem in the free bin at Sorry State

http://i.imgur.com/hR1MBTT.jpg?1

Got this for $7 at Sorry State

http://i.imgur.com/aGCWlwm.jpg

Got these for a dollar each at Sorry State (minus the Melvins and Bad Brains, I made those myself)

http://i.imgur.com/LEKjZ7m.jpg

What did you get for $7?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1807624)

What did you get for $7?

the Rites of Spring demo 12"

Lotus Biscoff coffee biscuits and a cappuccino.

http://modern-vinyl.com/wp/wp-conten...PM-300x300.png

Mines not a fucking blue pressing though I'm pissed. Sounds excellent on vinyl though I'm blown away.

I'll wait for the torrent, but I've still gotta see what all bob.'s fuss is about.

A Love Supreme, nice choice.

I embarrassingly have zero Coltrane albums on vinyl (as a bandleader that is).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justthefacts (Post 1812615)

No love for Miles?

It's not his best album.

I'm a jazz noobie I'll be honest, so as of right now every decent jazz record that's ever come out I've still yet to listen too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justthefacts (Post 1812615)

No love for Miles?

That album's nice and I respect it's place in jazz history (and I have it on vinyl lol) but Miles has done so much better. I wouldn't listen to it unless it came on the radio or if I'm tired of my other records while I'm in a spinnin mood.

Bitches Brew on the other hand is hard to turn off or put on repeat, even when the police are being insistent on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justthefacts (Post 1812618)

I'm a jazz noobie I'll be honest, so as of right now every decent jazz record that's ever come out I've still yet to listen too.

Nefertiti is such a better record, as well as a lot of his other stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs. Tristan rosenstock (Post 1812620)

nefertiti is such a better record, as well as a lot of his other stuff.

BITCHES BREW

right

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justthefacts (Post 1812618)

I'm a jazz noobie I'll be honest, so as of right now every decent jazz record that's ever come out I've still yet to listen too.

You'll love this then...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...um_Kenny_G.jpg

I want a poster of that cover on my wall to attract bitches.

I looked into your recs, I think the first ones I'll be checking out are The Wicked + The Divine and Preacher..

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1814530)

I looked into your recs, I think the first ones I'll be checking out are The Wicked + The Divine and Preacher..

Excellent choice. You'll enjoy a main character being a Kanye stand-in.

Had to buy a proper pair of trousers today for a pending interview. Most of MB understands that I've worn disco era or Victorian men's attire for decades now, but suddenly I needed something contemporary. Thrifted trousers were ghastly - frumpy formless old man pants. So, reluctantly, I ventured into... the mall. Sewage emanating from the public address system, (how dare they call that music?!), adverts everywhere, and I was shocked at what garments cost in the 21st century!

I was in and out in 10 minutes, but it took two cups of tea and several modern classical records to recover from the ordeal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerspaceboy (Post 1814547)

Shall I call for an old priest and a young priest?

With the gift card..:

-Boring household stuff

-Books

-A boar bristle hair brush and a small green oil lamp (because I am Anne of Green Gables)

-More henna; it's too orange/strawberry blonde for my tastes, so I need another layer.

-Various Korean and Japanese sunscreens, because they work far better
-A Cosrx snail mucin serum (yes, that is a thing, and it's great), a Japanese vitamin C serum for my hyperpigmentation/rosacea, and a Korean face lotion; they're all free of fatty alcohols, oils and silicones, so I'm hoping for the best. I have the most sensitive skin in the world. I really ought to just make up a batch of whipped shea butter, maybe with rose and hemp seed oil added. Most regular moisturizers are useless. Might also get some zinc oxide powder and either pearl or silk powder for added sun protection.

-More of one of my favorite perfumes (it smells like a mix of autumn and buttery cinnamon cookies)

-New bra because mine are all falling apart

-a 1940s-50s esque gingham-print dress because I can't resist the whole farmgirl-who-may-or-may-not-be-embroiled-in-a-murder aesthetic

I'm also still browsing through knives, comics, and wine making supplies.

that gtx 1080ti though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiomara (Post 1816355)

-Books

What books did you end up getting?

https://f4.bcbits.com/img/0008575184_10.jpg

Just bought this off the Dischord bandcamp. It comes in Tuesday. Psyched af

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1820385)

ay ay good pick

Such a good album. I think it's very appropriate for having on vinyl, rad cover. Only down $18 too. Gonna have to skip buying lunch for a few days though to balance it out.

these are the sacrifices we need to make, at least you can listen to some rad music on wax while enduring the hunger pains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1820434)

these are the sacrifices we need to make, at least you can listen to some rad music on wax while enduring the hunger pains.

I mean I'm gonna eat just not eat out