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I think it has a lot to do with how unexpected it is. Without any warning whatsoever, suddenly 12 people are dead. In Africa, it's genocide, so it doesn't come as any surprise when someone dies (as sad as that sounds). And I mean, I was crushed by the death of someone close to me and since then I've thought a lot more about all the people that die every day and all the people e(a?)ffected by those deaths, but it's not like I'm going to bring that up in conversation.
Oh, and the media plays a big role. It's much more in your face when it's breaking news and you hear all about the people than the death of someone that is never brought to your attention. |
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I found out yesterday that a friend and ex-military colleague died in a motorcycle accident. Wasn't surprising though, as he was a motorcycle stunt enthusiast...
If Maj. Malik had actually been Private (insert typical white male name here), this shooting incident wouldn't have been surprising either, given the stresses of being in the military and being deployed or about to be deployed. Since I've been in both situations, I can testify to that. The only thing that surprises me is that it was a Major. That's pretty much as far as the surprise goes, really. I'm used to seeing Majors as being intelligent, grounded, responsible men and they're in leadership positions usually as a result of those qualities if not for time in service and qualification alone. But I guess everyone has their breaking points. When I was in the army there were 3 suicides and several more attempts, in my battalion alone. And far far more stress-related violent outbursts, but thankfully nothing of the magnitude that went down at Hood. I'm just saying that I've seen what the military can do to people who can't handle it, and in that respect, I'm not surprised. I think the military really needs to look at this incident as a flag for the need of significant change in the way they do business. You can't protect your country if your own soldiers are turning on each other due to the stress put on them by organization to which they're bound. And don't say "You knew it would suck when you signed up"... Knowing something will be tough is one thing... Knowing you can handle it is only possible when you go through it... and unfortunately, by the time you find out that you can't, it's too late. |
The commander of the base, Lt Gen Robert Cone, told NBC News that, according to eyewitnesses, Mr Hasan had shouted the Arabic phrase "Allahu Akbar!" [God is great] before opening fire.
Mr Obama cautioned against "jumping to conclusions" and said the motives for the shooting were being investigated. :confused: |
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Did they ever say whether he converted to Islam, or what? 'Cause homeboy looks whiter than ghost shit. Fat too, so definitely American. |
...Major Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, a US-born Muslim, army psychiatrist...and all American fat bastard. ;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8347501.stm |
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i'm tryin to be very diplomatic in my response to you, specially since i am thankful for your military service and have none myself however i think this is separate from how the military treats those in it i truly believe this was some form of jihad unluckly for him, he lived through it not because he is a muslim BUT because he is a traitor and a coward and a murderer he should be hung three times as for this hittin home harder than dieing africans i assure you that i have the same amount of empathy in all situations, however there is some death that is more preventable than others,....i see this as one of those that was more preventable |
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I didn't mean to downplay the situation by saying I wasn't surprised. Me not being surprised has nothing to do with the fucked-up-ness that transpired. And yes, the guy, regardless of his reasons for killing all those people, should be brought to justice. We should definitely try to learn as much as possible about his motives so we can CORRECTLY adjust our tactics. But I think it's a little early in the game to rule just anything out until it's properly analyzed. I think that's what the O man meant by not jumping to conclusions. |
I've got a hunch that the reasons will be put down to him having psychological problems.
A one off. Probably true, too. |
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But hopefully something comes out of the investigation that we can actually use to educate ourselves and at least make it less likely for the event to happen again. We can't do a major lot for the likelihood of people flipping out, nor can we do much for an ideology, but if there's any connection to something we can control about our own actions, I'd hope this incident serves as a catalyst to that. |
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i think youre wrong when you say we cant do much for an ideology we can expel that ideology i feel as though the political correctness we now adhear to tears down everything the greatest generation gave us, everything they worked for, everything they won for us the idea of freedom, justice, good while i would never condone the mistreatment of a person based on their religious beliefs, i can condone not allowing them to be in a position that would give them access to eradicate a country that i hold so dear muslims are taught to kill the infidel i am the infidel if you are not muslim you are the infidel the country our military protects is a country of infidels,.... i strenuously believe that is what happened here again i'll say: to be born into freedom is a mistake to live in freedom is a struggle to die for freedom is an obligation the american military protects my freedom, so of course it would be my sensibility to want to protect that entity if that is a conclusion i have jumped to, or blatant fact is debatable,...though i fear it is the former |
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All Muslims don't believe in killing infidels. You're thinking of an extremist ideology. To accuse all people of Islamic faith that they're all out to kill others who don't fall in line with their beliefs, based on a line from the Qur'an or based on the actions of a relatively small minority associated with the Islamic faith, is ignorant. It's like saying that since there is a relatively publicized portion of African American males that commit robberies, all African American males are criminal thieves. I'm not sure if you misstated what you said, or I misinterpreted it, but that's my response for that anyway. That said, you should probably know that our own country eradicates itself FAR more than external forces do. There is SO much more internal violence against ourselves in this country that FAR outweighs the actions perpetrated by people of other nations, whether inside or outside this country. Criminals in this country don't respect the ideals you respect, just like the supposed terrorists don't. Respect is achieved from action, not what some dumb-ass hicks put on billboards and flags while they screw the country over with their selfish desires and inadequacies, hanging off the government tit and killing each other over a five dollar bill. If you wanna call this the good life, you go ahead. I personally think that if there's anything to be learned from angst against America, it's gained from the ability to stop being so goddamned self-important and realizing that we're not the most important, best idea since sliced bread and the fucking thong. I'm just saddened to say that since this bullshit ass scare tactic that went down on 911, not to make light of the tragedy, the west has been cleverly fucked in the bong hole because this entire firestorm of paranoia that will in no way die down soon whether attacks on the "US" stops or not. Terrorism, the concept, is the next generation of control whether you like it or not. You can patriot your way into dwindling freedom, or not. Either way, there's only one thing that's guaranteed... There will be less. Not more. And it's not a result of "terrorists". "Terrorists" are just a damn easy way to make people like you believe it is. |
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How do you test for such extremes of belief, how do you prove it. How do you tell the difference between a conscientious objector and someone with fundamentalist ideals. How do you do this without asking them to their face?
I don't know a massive amount about the events but the more I read about it the stronger the impression I get was that this wasn't part of some organised terrorist activity but a very angry, confused and misguided person snapping and doing something incredibly twisted as a result. It doesn't look like the sort of thing that was months in thep lanning with an orgnised cell. |
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I think she doesn't want Muslims in America...;)
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I think the tragedy at the fort has shocked her and evoked strong feelings.
Naturally, as it's so close to home. It's easy for us to detach ourselves at a distance. |
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I think you are doing your best to misconstrue Savannah's statement and intentions.
I don't see anything in her statement that implies that Muslims are inherently bad, that Islam is inherently wrong, or that anyone in our country should be mistreated on the basis of their religious creed. She simply states that because one of the principle tenets of Islam's ideology is "kill the infidel", and it is. it is generally counter-intuitive and a risk to national security to allow anyone that adheres to that particular ideology to be in a position of defending our national security. Yes, it's America, I know, and we all wanna' be shiny happy ****ing people holding hands all the time, I'm Ok You're Ok, but there is a point where that cozy warm blanket of political correctness needs to be disregarded when it conflicts so strongly with our own security interests. |
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I'm scared of Christians, can we ban them too? |
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However, The terrorists that pose a security threat to our country have a single common denominator. They are Muslims who happen to have a very unhealthy and agressively violent understanding of what the principle tenets of Islam inform them to be their religious obligation to Allah, and they have the intent to carry out what they perceive that obligation to be. In many, and I daresay most cases that particular outlook is the result of religious manipulation on behalf of a religious leader. Yes, cases of this are also rampant in Christianity. Yes, Christianity has been the root of violence within our country and abroad. However, if we are correct in our understanding, which we are, that these terrorist acts of violence toward our country are religiously motivated, be it rational or irrational, it makes little to no sense to allow people who even loosely adhere to the same religious ideology to be in the position of defending and possibly infiltrating our national security. |
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Maybe we should fear the liberals who control the far left of politics?.....or the conservatives that control the far right?.....instead of religious beliefs .... (as for myself).....I am Fearless!..period. "Though I walk through the valley of death, I fear no evil....For I am the badest mother ****er in the valley".
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The example that you provide about the disgruntled wackjob who shot up his former employer's office in Orlando would only be relevant if his ethnicity and religious beliefs had been the principle motivation for his attacks, if past attacks of a similar nature were evidenced by the same criteria, and if the magnitude and consistency of those attacks gave cause to be circumspect about his initial employment in the first place. If the answer to all those questions were "yes", then I do think that his ethnicity and creed would be relevant subjects for discussion. |
This guy would be irrelevant if anyone was remotely paying attention or doing their job.
The way the American Military is run sometimes is not good business. The combat is grade A, but they need to get themselves an HR department. I couldn't have written the stuff he did and kept my job, and this guys a ****ing Major. |
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I recently read an article in Navy times about a Navy Chief in Bahrain who was a leader of a ring of corruption including 100's of accounts of severe hazing, rape, assault, and prostitution who received next to no punishment for his actions. His inferiors were put to blame 100%, leading one sailor to suicide. Point is, authority within the military is something that needs to be re-evaluated. Also, the stress management training and suicide prevention training is a joke, talk about a ten minute click-through on a computer screen with a bunch of boring paragraphs you couldn't be more detached from. And suicide attempts are not taken seriously. I mean in my top secret space in which I work, a member recently attempted suicide, and is currently still working in a classified area. I mean who much more blatantly can you say "**** this place, I just don't care anymore". It just doesn't make any sense that someone that seemingly unstable can maintain access to top secret and above information without being at least evaluated my mental health officials. Within the military, the truth is often clouded by this **** storm of beaurocratic attitudes and bull**** policies that serious issues can fall through the cracks completely unrecognized. I'm not saying that's what caused this incident, but re-evaluating the current system and appoaching it with a different point of view is not only sensible and practical, but it's also something that the military would never traditionally do. |
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@ Crash.
That's what I was trying to say earlier. If this doesn't prompt the military into a major evaluation (pun not intended) then we're simply going to see more incidents like this. The military absolutely NEVER takes any of the blame when stuff like this goes down, and as a result, nothing ever changes in response to incidents. But I personally feel that because the men and women it employs are bound by contract, there should be a greater sense of responsibility over its personnel by the military organizations themselves. If there was, you'd see the military making more changes to itself and its policies, instead of trying to simply control its personnel. |
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You see majors all the time in the medical field, but in a line unit the majors would basically be the middleman between the company commanders and the battalion commander. They don't make the important decisions, but they're still in leadership positions... moreso than in the medical field where the relevance is basically just their current rank as a doctor. |
my point in saying he was a major was simply to point out that there should have been more scrutiny.
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It happened and still happening in Cuba, with the fear of Capitalism, it's happening in my dear country, with the fear of Syrian/Israeli/US/Iran occupation and it began in the US since 9/11, with the fear of the Muslim extremists, that now, in the minds of the majority, are all Arabs or just anyone with a beard and a dark tan. I don't know when it'll end, but I guess it'll fade soon. |
This thread has evolved from something tragic, to everyone blaming muslims/arabs/whatever.
I think the point of the thread shifted from the tragedy involved to the religeon of the guy caused it. I believe people become like this (to do something extremely sickening like murders) to based on their upbringing, environmental surroundings and external influences. No mention of religeon there, although there has been many cases of Muslims etc causing harm around the world, there probably has been as much harm caused by white people, black people, and every ethnicy inbetween. So if all muslims are terrorists, would it be correct for me to assume all American Black people are gangsters and carry guns, etc. No it would be wrong. So I find it wrong for people to look at muslims etc in an acussing way. Other races are just as bad, you probably dont hear about it as much as there is a massive hype around muslims at the moment, painting them black as if they can only do wrong. Shit grammer ma bad. One day.. I will have awesome grammer. |
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