Hitler
 

if you could go back before Hitler started killing millions of people, and kill him first would you?

I don't know if I would or not. I'd really want to, but it would change history a ****load and no one would be able to know if it were for better or worse in the end. You're probably thinking "well, it would be better because millions of people's lives would be saved!", but I'm just saying, there's no telling, at all, and you all know that so don't give me shit about it. And I also don't really know, but I figure since the holocaust has happened people probably take stuff like racism more seriously than if it had never happened. I'd probably kill him though. Shoot the fuckhead right in the face.

uhh...No cause who knows what the hell would happen to current time?Like what the hell would change? plus their would be no Nazi Punk pathces.

I hope you mean those ones with the swastika crossed out..or DK nazi punks **** off...

I dunno, I still don't really have an answer to the question. Sometimes I think about it and I just want to ****ing rip his face off and shove it up his ass, but then I think of how it's influenced the future and I'm stuck.

Yes The DK patches and no fu*ck off nazi punk song.

I love that song*tear*

but just a simple song wouldn't stop me from killing him..i mean I know he influenced the world negatively but like I said, there's no telling what would happen, and still it did influence a lot of stuff

actually this thread reminds me of the whole chaos theory thing. The theory that any given input will have a completely random output, and the slightest event could cause major disturbances down the road. It's a huge in depth thing, and it's really pretty complicated. The basic jist of it is that every outcome is random, and cannot be predicted, but this has been disproven with some albeit very strange, but proven, laws of physics. What a chaos theorist would call chaos, a physicist would call proven and viable cause and effect. But then of course even with very advanced physics it gets hard to predict the outcome of a given event with the uncertainty principle, which basically states that by observing a particle, we alter its state, so we can never predict its patterns and behaviour accurately enough to develop a model to predict the future. Anyways I'm getting ahead of myslef, and kind of off topic, so i'll stop here. But what got me going on and on like that was the whole chaos theory thing, and part of that is that it's impossible to predict the outcome of any given event, no matter how small. Which is true in a way, but physics is able to predict the outcome of events on a certain scale, but then when you get in to individual particles, you have to deal with the uncertainty principle thing, which muddles everything up.

i love getting into stuff like the chaos theory. such a mind bender. its the butterfly effect and all this shizznickel. what about this question, could you take the life of one innocent little girl to the saviour of mankind?

^If it was a question of saving mankind, then yes, I would do it. here's a tougher questions, if there was a small chance that mankind would cease to exist if you didn't kill that innocent little girl, would you do it? If you really want a mindf*ck, my friend is studying physics in uni right now, and he was telling me about when one of his profs started telling them about this string theory. It's sometimes called the "everything theory" because it combines gravitational relativity and quantum mechanics. It basically says that sub atomic particles are made up of tiny loops of energy, each loop being billions times smaller than the entire atom. These little "strings" exist in 6 other dimensions, besides our 3. They've theorized up to 11 different dimensions that these things exist in. So besides length, width and depth there could be 8 other dimensions that we don't see. Talk about a mindf*ck just trying to bend your mind around that. Besides that, the theory predicts that there could be an infinite number of other universes, with different laws and physical constants, each existing millimeters away from eachother. but these universes are unreachable and undetectable to eachother because the "strings" are attached to our universal membrane, like a huge blanket. But, they've speculated that by using partical accelerators, subatomic particles called gravitons may be able to travel through universes. They've noticed that by crashing atoms into each other, these little gravitons just dissapear, and this theory speculates that they've jumped to a higher dimension in another universe, they're just gone.

Yeah, this got me thinking about all these other mindf*cks as I like to call them. Lot's of people have said that the universe just doesn't end, and I can accept that. But the other theory is that it's expanding, but, if it's expanding, then there must be something to expand into, but that something must be nothing. It's that nothing that completely baffles me, like no space, or time, but somehow the universe that has a sense of space and time is expanding into it. So somehow the universe was created and is now expanding, I reason that movement determines time, so the expansion of the universe creates our sense of time. But then there's that whole "crunch" theory, where the universe will actually contract, so at that point would time just reverse? and if that were the case would it just reverse back to it's origin, then start expanding again, and just go in an infinite cycle? What if that were the case, that the universe is just going in an infinite cyle of expansion and contraction, and time just goes forward and back again. Would history repeat itself every time? or would something tiny and minute differ every time that would cause each new expansion of the univers to be wildly different? not sure if any of that made any sense, but yeah, mindf*ck. On the subject of time, that got me thinking about time travel. so if this was possible, do you think you'd be able to alter the future by changing what you did in the past if you went back in time? I was thinking about this today, and i'm not sure it would work like that. I kind of started to think of it as past, present, and future all existing at the same time. if you've traveled from the future, then that means that when you're in your past, your future has already happened (seeing as how you just came from it), so in a sense your future is also your past, so you can't alter it, it's already happened. So if that was true, then maybe if you traveled back in time, you wouldn't have the ability to change the future, because somewhere, it's already happened. Again, no clue if any of that made sense, but it's just fun to mess with your head. Ok, just a few more mind bending things to think about. Ok, so I don't want to turn this into a debate about weather or not god exists, but lets say he/she/it does. Let's also assume that god made everything, the universe, any other universes, just everything. So then what made god? nothing, god was always there, just always, always there. I can't even wrap my mind around that, like there was absolutely nothing before god, and who knows how long he/she/it existed before the universe was created. On that note, we can't even imagine how long god has existed, because before the universe was created there was no measure or sense of time. And if the universe created the sense of time, then it must have created the sense of space as well, since before the universe, there was no space. So where did god exist before the universe was created? there was just nothing to exist IN. ok now that I've effectively f*cked my mind up, I'm gonna read jesus's thread about pie.

ok..i really wanted to answer to this thread and to see your guys' posts..but there's just too much to read and not enough time. so if i say something you already said, that's life...

so we should think twice before answering cause if we say "yeah, go into the past and kill those nazis and people will never have to deal with i dunno communism and such" ... if that happened, we would never know what a negative impact communism and fascism and co have on our lives and people would try it again and the history would repeat itself even though a part of it would've been "erased" by us.

If you like all the Quantum Theory/String Theory type stuff then you should read The Elegant Universe. It makes your brain hurt but it's worth it. If you can't be bothered to read the book, just watch the TV series:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

If I could go back in time and kill anybody I'd sort out Stalin first. Most estimates for the death toll are between 8 and 20 million people. This seems to have gone largely unnoticed.

Dave

Sh*ttin hell, jib that just completely messed my mind up... I can bet you Ill be stuck here trying to get my head round all that all night. Ha twas fun though

erm..
 

Right a) I wouldn't kill Hitler cause its whats made today today and today is what matters, plus its given us history etc etc.
B):
*sits quietly, brain melts out of ear* thats some complicated stuff giving me a headache trying to think of it.
C)
There was talk of some pie?

You're making the error of modelling the universe like a balloon. You partially inflate the baloon, it's a certain size. Blow it up some more and it expands to fill the space around it. The expansion of the universe is the expansion of space-time itself.

The way I understand it (and I'm probably completely wrong) is, everything is expanding (even the atoms etc that make up everything we see). Ah, you say, so why haven't we gotten any bigger? We have. Get a ruler and carrot. Expand both by a constant and measure the carrot. It's the same as before. So how can we measure that the universe is expanding? We don't use a ruler, we use redshift. From our frame of reference galaxies appear to be getting further apart. We can tell this because the wavelength of the emitted light is strecthed toward the red end of the electro-magnetic spectrum.

Dave

I think m'lady was referring to the theory that since 'the big bang' (i believe in God not that so.... anyway) when everything exploded into....well whatever was or wasn't there in the first place, it is still expanding from the original big bang.......WAIT A MINUTE...what is it expanding into? think of the big bang, then try and picture it expanding into nothing (this is what Jibb was talking bout) how is that physically possible, ouch.

I'm well aware what she was talking about. However, you have mistakenly pictured the big bang as an explosion, with a centre and a blast radius. You have to remember that before the big bang there was no space. The big bang is the unfurling of space-time, the very creation of the dimensions you see before you. It is apparent that unfurling process has yet to finish.

Anyway, back OT, if Hitler was killed, it is fair to assume the USSR would have attempted to take over much of Europe. They were only our allies because we had a common enemy.

Dave

yo, where do satanists go when they die, son? cant get my head around it son, quantum physiks iz easy compared to dat sh*t.

yo son, if you wanna get f*** up, just heff on some paint thinnner. that **** will get you f*** up good son.

Hmmm.. hell maybe ?

6ft under or the crematorium, just like the rest of us.

Dave

satanists have to believe in God to disobey him, try thinking of that for a while thats kinda weird in a way.

has anybody ever seen the satanic bible? on sunday night my friend and i were talking about this, and numerous other topics similar to itand he actually got a hold of a copy. it isnt "worship satan. kill your neighbors" sort of stuff. its more worship yourself, there is no god, you determine what you do with your life. it enforces the worldly pleasures and says that essentially, any faith you hold should be towards yourself.

jiob the theory of more than three dimensions has been around for centuries. according to the ancient mayan prophecies the human race is destined to be transported to the fourth dimension in the year 2012. some of you are probably thinking "yeah, but 1500 years ago, what science could they possibly know" is stupid. the mayan society had a mastered a science that even today it takes over 8 fields of our scholars to master. they could predict and did, exactly where in the sky in years centuries after them that a certain star or planet or whatever would be.

and yes. i love paint thinner. goes down well with skulling comps of petrol and gasoline. but if you really want a high then inject some sink cleaner into you arms. i tell you that stuff gets you WHACK!

Of course not! Not because I'm a neo-Nazi or anything, just because it taught the world a lesson about...something. I dunno what. But definately something. *Cough* Uh, yeah.

yes, and the worlds obviously learnt its lesson... personally i would kill him, just to prevent the slaughter of millions of innocent people.

The most interesting dilemma here is that, without Hitler, maybe the ideas of the Nazi party regarding the Final Solution and the hatred of jews and homosexuals would never have been quite so prevalent, however, without Hitler's egotism and refusal to accept even the most basic military advice, there is every chance Germany could have won the war in Europe.

I see what you're saying, but I'm not thinking about it as a blast radius. Yeah, I agree with you that the big bang was the unfurling of space/time, but I'm just focusing on what was before that. There was no space and no time, but just focus in on that one concept, just the absolute nothingness that somehow is being replaced by our perception of space/time. Plus you're theory of everything expanding in proportion is insane. I mean insane in a mind-boggling, but entirely possible way, not implying that you should be in a a padded room with no sharp objects or anything.

Yeah, the fact that the theory has been around for so long just makes it even more mindfu*kly (yes I'm aware that's not a word, but it works quite well). We've been around for this long and have absolutely no clue whats going on around us, but then again we've come pretty damn far. Makes me wish I could be here a few thousand years down the road to see what people discover, asuming of course we don't all blow eachother up. And yes paint thinner is some crazy stuff. I'm working on an oil painting right now, and my studio space is tiny, shared with four other people, also working with oil paints and paint thinner. Add that to the other 7 tiny studio spaces really really close to ours, also all working with paint thinner, and needless to say I have to take some trips outside every once in a while to get away from the fumes.

also needless to say the longer you work in that room the more abstract your art will become. expand your mind jib, EXPAND!
think about how far we have actually come. the aboriginies-for example, not targetting them at all-arrived in australia approx 40 000 years ago. in two thousand years the human race has gone from a spear to an atomic bomb. it took hundreds of thousands of years before the early humans discovered to put a rock on the end of a stick.