mr dave

sorry for double posting but i just need to add 2 cents to this.

the other big factor that a lot of 'educated' people mistake is that the job is granted based on ability over attitude. you can train a monkey to perform surgery, but a company needs someone who can work along with the rest of its staff and in line with the corporate policies and procedures, especially if it's a specialized position. attitude and behavior go a LONG way and just fronting large because you have a degree and nothing else has the kind of reek that any competent HR person can smell from outside the building.

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Freebase Dali

True, and I do agree that there are personality qualities that do go a long way... but it's not a matter of one or the other when it comes to career fields that require specific knowledge and experience. A great personality can walk into an interview all day long but if that person has no knowledge or experience regarding the job, I don't think a winning personality is going to matter.
Not saying it doesn't matter at all... I'm just saying it's not the prerequisite. If anything, an employer can only really objectively judge a potential employee by what's on paper. The rest becomes apparent after the employer has already taken a chance and hired that person.

pourmeanother

I haven't seen anybody post anything that would lead me to believe they have misconceptions about just walking out and getting any job they want. So, I'm not sure why you get that feeling.

You're right, it definitely goes both ways. A degree isn't a gateway to any job in the world. However, from my discussions with faculty, recruiters, HR staff, and others- just by showing that you can successfully go through the grind of four years of college and obtain a bachelor's (or higher) puts you in a more positive light than those who did not. That's not to say that if you get an Art degree, you're going to get any job you want in the Crop Advising field... But I don't think that really needs to be said, because nobody here has shown that they are that misguided about their options after their degree.

If this is directed at me, I never said I had "absolutely no idea" what I want to do in life... That's stretching my words. I do know that I want to get out in the field of business, and, hopefully, specifically for a tech firm. So, you can see why I would, well, you know, umm... Spend time and money getting degrees in business and technology, learning specifically about my future career path. Whether that be a software firm, Boeing, an insurance company, Chevron- I don't ****ing know. That is the big mystery that still exists, and can only be solved by going out there and experiencing it first hand after college.

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mr dave

agreed, it's definitely a combination of both elements, just that it's one of those things that doesn't get taught much in class. although the employer doesn't really need to take a chance and hire someone to know what they're really like, that's the whole point of multiple interviews and a worthwhile HR staff.

then again i work in call centers and normally deal with jobs that have less specific demands and therefore higher competition. but it's normally the industry where most people fresh out of school get their first taste of actually working for a living, and generally speaking uni grads are the biggest headaches.

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Freebase Dali

It was a statement about people's general propensity for assuming that any degree is better than no degree. While compared to an ex McDonald's employee applicant, sure.. it's better. But the point I was trying to make is that for a real career that actually requires real knowledge and not some arbitrary English degree for a job that requires you to know more than how to communicate your own language effectively, it's actually important to have knowledge of your field. In degree form, that's great. Most of the time it's required. But not some random degree that has nothing to do with anything.

So far, I'm quite sure that it's been argued about during this entire thread... But I could be wrong.. I have been visiting the Recreational Drug Thread. People like us... totally crazy. Outcasts. Insane people.

Who are you comparing the degree holding person to? A convicted felon McDonald's employee? Some random guy with no work experience and who dropped out in the 3rd grade? Or a multitude of other applicants who also think, like you, that all you need is an arbitrary degree to stand out from the rest of the crowd? What, you think you'll be the only applicant who has an arbitrary degree and all the other applicants are just regular Joes with nothing beyond a highschool degree and a winning personality?

Think in reality for a second. You're not going to ever be lucky enough to go into a job interview with a one-up on everyone who's already applied just because you have a degree. If you thought that, you're either applying at Burger King or you think you're the only guy to ever go through college. Now, I know you said you know that you have to have a degree that's relevant. Which is true. But if you knew that, you wouldn't have even brought up having a degree as some sort proof of being able to handle college for 4 years as some sort of qualification for being hired. This pretty much tells me that you think the piece of paper itself is what's valuable in principle... which I totally disagree with and I think that's pretty obvious with what I typed above.

TheBig3

Well, I have a BA in English. I'm using it to be a smug ****. That and I'm going back to school.

I used to share your view, Sam. I wanted so badly to break free of Academia, to get a real 9-5 where I didn't bring anything home at night. When I was done, I was done.

Then I got out.

School loans may be a vampirism that Bram Stoker never realized. But if there's one sour reality that's waiting at the gates much sooner than loan payments, its that the real world doesn't give a **** about your intelligence, your drive, your ideas, or your opinion.

The real world is filled with soon to retire baby boomers, they failed to live up the the greatest generation and they hate their lives and their marriages. They grew up in the 60's and 70's and the world was supposed to all change in their wide-eyed revolution. But nothing changed except that the 2nd world collapsed.

They're done in 10 years or less. What they don't want is some miserable upstart with a sac full of promise coming in and asking them to skip the black coffee in favor of going to price upgrades for the lobby, or the software, or the way we process customer requests.

College may be bull ****, I won't disagree, but its some good experience if you're not being spoon-fed. Enjoy the hell out of it while you can.

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mr dave

i never really understood this sentiment. mainly because the majority of people i've heard echoing it finish school then try starting their lives like they're debtless yuppies. new car, new house, new 'mature' social life - like a real adult. only, they started accumulating more debt before even starting to pay off the educational one or learning to live off the budget whatever job they land provides, as opposed to rationing the student loan to make sure you have beer every weekend.

the 'trick' is to keep living like you did as a student until you can actually afford to stop doing so.

which leads to - sleeping on the floor is honestly awesome.

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noise

i've only read the first post in this thread, but i would like to reply to it my simply reminding everyone that education has value in and of itself. it's not just an obstacle you have to overcome on the way towards something bigger and better. there are far more important things in life than economic concerns.

i spent 8 years in uni, and i came out of it with three degrees (by all rights, i'm dr. noise). i'm not using my skills at the moment. i'm working a menial job for mediocre pay. and still i owe $45,000 in student loans. but i'm very glad i went through with my plans to get a PhD.

even just the exercise of researching and writing a 400-page document was immensely educational. and i'm now one of the leading experts in my (admittedly narrow) field of study. hell, last fall i was dragged half-way around the world to be the featured speaker at a study conference on the subject. that's money well spent of you ask me

i have no regrets, and would never discourage someone from attending university.

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TheBig3

Well you can count me out of that club. I own nothing. I rent, I ride the bus, and I went to one of the cheaper schools in the area. The problem is, I got a job in the non-profit field and currently there isn't a way to move up or out.

At a larger company I'd have been promoted but they ran out of slots. In a better economy I'd have taken my skill set and gone for greener pastures but theres no where to go.

It also has quite a bit to do with location. The rent around here is confiscatory, but as I say, finding jobs is hell anywhere, and I can't move to a cheaper place on a NP salary and hold out for hope that somethign turns up.

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bubu

How does knowing that a series can only converge if any sum of the series has a limit of 0 (not sure how it should sound in english, sorry) going to help me pursue my career as a programmer ? this is just a moderate example of the things we're required to "learn" through the "education" process.

What value is there in education as it is right now? in half the time i spent in school i learned and got to making enough money to support myself and contribute to my family and I trained and studied more subjects than current education even dreams about.

I really don't consider going to school time well spent.

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