Yeah another thing, programming video games is definitely more difficult than making music or writing. Not saying that makes it a superior media, but designers deserve a lot of respect for the effort they put into their work.

I think that applies to any creative mind who invests great knowledge, imagination, effort and detail into what they're designing even if it's a consumer product and not what people consider art. For example fancy cars, guitars, fashion items or other kinds of "applied art" or utility item that people use everyday. These things may all be mass produced and thus not art, but they all begin as creations just like everything else.

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wow you're a sensitive one aren't you... ;)

also i checked him out on amazon, the first three pages of his novel shuttree was all details nothing really happened it was just meaningless details which got boring after the 1st page. i understand what you meant i don't think he's my kind of author but thanks for suggesting him. :yeah:

also "feeble-minded" that's kind of a stuck-up thing to say, but whatever. :rolleyes:

oh and my favorite book that i've actually read cover to cover is "The Tiger Rising"

I honestly don't know how ANYONE could think video games aren't art

Because they aren't thought provoking, they don't touch you on any other level than the surface. A hell of a lot of them don't have any real substance to them, despite sometimes being visually a treat.

More tedious? Yes. More of an art form? No. Where's the individual personal expression in pushing out batches of code? How many variations of the same banal fantasy concept can you churn out before it gets old? And is programming a video game really that much more difficult when you're comparing a production team of 50-100 programmers to one person sitting at a word processor pushing out 300+ pages of original content that will keep a reader captivated without the need for graphics or a six pack of Mountain Dew?

The thing is though a lot of games with actual real storylines will have characters that you will easily fall in love with and draw you into it emotionally, much like movies. It obviously depends on which game you're playing. I don't think you'd expect Tekken to change your outlook on life.

wtf? couldn't that be said about any art form? somethings are deeper then others. saying they don't touch you on any other level than the surface is total bull, as lots of stories from video games have affected me in my day to day life.

aaaah, this could explain the ignorance

It's not ignorance at all, video games aren't that f*cking pretentious to touch your life in deeper ways. And that's what's good about them. It doesn't matter if you're stabbing hoes on GTA, or playing Final Fantasy, or Halo, or Call of Duty. They're just there for entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know how they can touch your life in a way like great music or great literature or great cinema. Every video game I've played, the story line always feels underdeveloped, I can't relate to the character like I can with someone like Travis in Taxi Driver, or a person telling a story through song like Ian Curtis.

I know I'm the minority but if a video game can touch your life in deep ways then Jesus Christ. I'm not THAT into games as you can tell, so if anyone tries to go into great detail about how amazing games are it won't mean a lot.. But out of interest, what games have touched your life in a thought provoking manner?

Ok you have a point, it's more of a team effort than an individual one (so is music production) but I don't think that should take away from the creative effort that goes into designing a game and the technical effort that goes into programming it, and the amount of cooperation involved.

I'm definitely not trying to belittle video games as a form of art. It definitely is, but all things considered it is an art form that is making advances in the area of improved graphics and engine physics while still riding a lot of the same worn out themes and concepts. You're talking about a mixed media art form that relies heavily on a combination of so many artistic elements: visual & graphic art, writing, cinematography, music production, et al. To be able to bring all of those elements together synergistically is an incredible challenge that many who are deeply exposed to the medium even take for granted.