Here she is:

http://imagecache6.allposters.com/LR...4/BJKOD00Z.jpg

Thats one fit penguin.

No, I definitely don't think the exceptions negate the demeaning and violent treatment of women by regimes and groups whose method of practicing the Muslim religion involves forcing women to cover their bodies (and sometimes not allowing them to inherit, work, drive, say no to sex with a husband, or go out in public without a male relative, etc.).

I was simply pointing out that the definition of what is a "good" Muslim varies from individual to individual according to her or his beliefs, so presumably the Muslim Miss Universe contestants feel they are doing what their conscience feels is good. Like you say, people can have a variety of interpretations of religious rules or be selective in which they follow or believe to be valid.

Especially since there is so much discomfort and hatred right now in the U.S. toward the Muslim religion as a whole (for example, over a proposed Islamic center near the former World Trade Center buildings), I feel it is important to acknowledge that the Muslim religion includes more than extreme sexist and violent viewpoints in which those in power enforce subservience, especially of women.

You mentioned Turkey, for example, from which most of my liberal Muslim women and men friends came. I agree with you that a contestant who is Muslim from Egypt would be less likely to wear a bikini than a Muslim contestant from the more liberal Turkey.

The "Revurka" is thought-provoking, Zaqarbal.

Heh heh...are you calling just me a "trendy lefty" with "politically correct naivety," or also Urban Hatemonger? Because probably he'd call me a naive, politically correct, trendy lefty...and so I would be amused to see him thrown into the trendy lefty barrel along with me! :D

They're all very pretty, but I don't think I could actually date any of them. Not that I know them or anything, but I feel like it would be like playing with a rare collectible Barbie doll; you can take it out to dinner and buy it pretty things, but you can't actually have fun with it.

I don't think any of us could actually date any of them.

That's not what I meant :-P

But seriously though... if you ended up with Miss Universe, why WOULDN'T you use her up like she was going out of style? (She actually would be, too)
I mean... screw treating her like a collectible 12"... put that shit on the turntable and do some battle scratches.

Or more realistically, if you were actually dating one of them... putting them on that kind of pedestal in the relationship would be the very reason you couldn't date them. For long, at least.
Some girls just want to be treated like a normal girl, even if they don't look like a normal girl.

I think in Egypt is unlikely, considering how women are treated there. For instance, Egypt is the country where female genital mutilation is most prevalent in the World (about 90% of Egyptian women have been mutilated). It was forbidden in 2007. Only three years ago!

I consider myself a liberal (let's say "in a Millian way" :)), but I don't like to lose my critical thinking, even if I'm discussing with people who have similar ideas to mine.

:(

I think genital cutting is disgusting. In Africa some mothers stone their daughters breasts too.

In regards to Muslims, why the hell aren't there more Arab girls in the mix? Hello Kuwait and Jordan have very beautiful women!!!

In Saudi Arabia they prefer the Miss Moral Beauty Pageant.


Because real beauty is on the inside, as Jack the Ripper said.

Yes, it is an awful thing that people cut and destroy parts of girls' and boys' genitalia. It looks like people in Egypt usually destroy a girl's clitoris, one of the worst forms of genital cutting. :( I also agree very much with John Stuart Mill's view that liberty means the individual must have freedom in opposition to unlimited state control!

I didn't realize this is going on, but I see it is true that in Cameroon, mothers use hot stones to flatten the developing breasts of 25% of the girls, hoping that stopping the development of their "enticing" breasts will protect the girls from sexual assault. It is tragic that the men's belief systems and behaviors aren't being targeted, and instead people victimize the girls! Cameroonian Girls Face Mutilation for Protection’s Sake | GlobalShift

The irony in this Miss Moral Beauty Pageant is that, as one contestant says, she is judged based on her personality...as if doing so is *better* than judging a woman based on her appearance. I feel it is much worse for people to rank women based on their personalities, something so private, than on their appearance, which is such a superficial part of a person. It is sad that they violate human rights of women while trying to encourage people to value inner beauty.

Since the desire of societies to force women's bodies to be covered appears to stem from their feeling that men will only view women sexually and not as people also, perhaps it is the MEN in Saudi Arabia who need the Revurka blindfold covering their eyes, so that they won't be distracted by women's uncovered bodies! ;)

I'll have to go into detail and really look tomorrow, but I find it hilarious that the scores float around 1-3. Who the hell are rating them? Jeeebus. Ironically the highest score is one of the uglier girls competing.

But yes. From the few I've seen, I really like Albania.

Moderator cut: image removed

That usually happens when everyone from a country goes to support their country.
Whatever person you're talking about probably had a bunch of people supporting her, whether she was pretty or not.

How could we have "missed" Miss Australia?

Watch this, HIGHlarious!

^ Aww, that was sweet, Vanilla! They are really living vicariously through their favorite contestant. It's like they're watching a sports competition! Their anguished expressions of hopeful, fearful waiting and their final euphoric jubilation are classic.

Darn it all. All this time I thought you were a woman who likes cats!

No, it's the opposite: A cat (let's say like this) liked by women. Well, at least that's my "metaphorical wish". :laughing:

Ah, the shy and beautiful, stunning Iberian lynx! I like shy and beautiful, stunning Iberian lynxes! :D

Wait, are you this dude?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/...58_468x657.jpg

Zaqarbal!!! <3

Move aside, Miss Mexico. ;)

Noooo! I'm not so crazy! Besides, Stalking Cat has a horrible anti-erotic cartoon voice to any woman. Even Lizardman has more sex-appeal than him:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5...zardman170.jpg

This is more accurate:



Miss Mexico, Miss Puerto Rico, Miss Venezuela, Miss Peru, Miss... :laughing: (a nice wishful thinking)

Yes, if there were a "Mr. Sexiest Strange Man in the Universe" contest, I agree that Lizardman would edge out Stalking Cat by a hair...or tongue. ;)

Or maybe you are best represented by THIS happening cat!

:) Felines seem to be as diverse as humans. Some male cats behave as promiscuous "playboys", other are like "lovers", etc... Right now, I was listening to this song (Lynx Ramón). It's about a male Iberian lynx who falls in love with a she-lynx, and his heart starts to beat faster ("bip bip, bop bop..."). One day he goes to see his beloved, but then they meet just in the middle of a road and the two lovers tragically died knocked down by a truck. :( One may think it's just a song, but it is inspired by a real fact: some years ago, zoologists found two died lynxes (a male and a female) together on a road in a National Park; they were run over by a truck. :( One of them had covered a long distance only to see his "girlfriend".

What a sad topic, Zaqarbal! The song sounds much livelier and happier than the romantic tragedy it describes.

Say, you should really start a cat thread. I searched for "cat" threads, and there didn't appear to be any yet. Or maybe you could start a music thread about cat music. Then we wouldn't have to discuss cat culture in a thread about sex kittens. ;)

Cat culture trivia: Did you know that cats are often a main pet target of domestic violence perpetrators, presumably because people who want control over others associate cats with the feminine and hate cats' independence?

I feel this relates a little to the Miss Universe competition. One aspect of beauty pageants that bugs me is that these women seem so eager to please and to get people's good opinion, subservient to the social concept of what's desirable. The contestants don't seem like cats at all, since cats usually do their own thing, don't care terribly much about what your opinion of them is, and are friendly on their own terms. I guess I'm just a cat person! :D

http://www.cackaloo.com/wp-content/u.../cat-woman.jpg

^^ pansexual vegan... I'm sure any real man hates you regardless of them being human.

I know, but remember "deviation" began with a strange "gender confusion" and it was NOT my fault. :D BTW, actually I already started a cat-music thread (here, in a way...).

So... I guess you're suggesting more suitable "animal metaphors" for this thread...

I admit it. :( I deviated from the official thread topic first! Thanks for the link to your Cat People music thread.

Exactly! The contestants also remind me of primped and posed poodles, so eager to please. I suppose it is all in good fun, though, and at least the humans do this willingly. I don't know about the poor dogs, though...

Poodle:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...d-as-a-006.jpg

Miss Australia:
http://resources0.news.com.au/images...a-campbell.jpg

^^ Miss Australia wears the so-called "National Costume" (sic), which seems to be a tacky distortion from a traditional Spanish dress. In other words, I would say it is in the antipodes (never better said) of good taste, but we already know that modern fashion designers worldwide are basically crazy. It's not her fault. Besides, the girl is very likeable:

Miss Australia is very giggly! I think she was a little nervous. After every comment she made she laughed and laughed! I suppose that is hard not to do when one is asked to make sounds like a car, etc. She was a good sport.

I agree, Zaqarbal...Miss Mexico is beautiful. And I love that brown-eyed girl song by Jim Morrison! Coca cola eyes! :D That's some nice post-modern poetry. You, sir, are quite a romantic, I can see. :)

Heh heh...I just noticed your comment, chiron. You remembered I'm a pansexual...or should we say "omnisexual?"