women rights... don't just ignore this
 

i'm not sure everyone heard about this already...

just click here

http://www.islamonline.net/english/n...rticle03.shtml

it's awful that they have to wear that kind of clothes and it's just wrong. i mean i know it's their religion and everything but if they wanted to wear something else, they should be allowed to. it's weird. i bet their policemen don't have to dress like that.
i gotta admit i laughed the first time i saw that picture in a newspaper but then i felt really sorry for muslim women. i guess they should be grateful they can work in a police department, huh? it seems that people there live like 200 years ago... :usehead: or just "under a BIG BIG rock" that doesn't let them think straight

I noticed women's rights activists like to bring in this issue about muslim women, completely disregarding the cultural differences. Are there no muslim women in your area? Yes, there are some that are "westernized", but most wear these garments, whether they are in the kingdom, the US, or in Iran. I dont know anything abou the Qur'an, so I'm not going to try to explain the religious aspect. But, it's not a matter of whether they have to, but I think they want to. In Iraq, it was a slightly different story, because women were typically not employed in government and had to cover their entire body (including the face).
You come off sounding racist, I know that's not what you were trying to portray. But, you shouldn't feel bad. They might not be able to wear spagetti straps and flip-flops and belly rings, but I doubt they want to either. This is their culture, that is the only thing they know, and want to know. The global community always speaks in terms of "saving" the Islam world. From what?

Hookers, I agree with yur statement:
these women wear those garments becuz they HAVE to over there, but when they come here, they still continue, even though they are protected by our laws and police to not let them be killed if that were the case....sometimes they have been taught this so thuroughly throughout their upbringing, that they cannot imagine anything different! I still personally don't belive that you should be forced to cover yourself, you should be free to be proud of yourself and body! But then again, that is coming from a woman in Canada, I say each to their own...however, when you come to this country, you have to abide by our rules and regulations....we accept your faith, just not all the consequences for breaking the followings...you cannot beat & kill your wife, steal your children or carry around a massive sword, if there is a problem with that...then give back your assistance cheque or give up you job and health care and go home....
I am NOT a racist! so plz don't tak that as a racist statement, it is just a feeling I have when I read about all the tragaties going on in our country,
Headline this morning in the Sun: "Man throws himself and 4 year old daughter over bridge"
apparently, his wife left him, and he was not getting good access, so he threw her over the bridge, and she broke every bone in her body, he died on impact...they were a muslim family...those kinds of actions are wrong.

I`m sure those women would point out to you that they would find people not wearing those clothes just as offensive as you find them wearing them.

They do it because they feel they will be spiritually rewarded for it in the next life.To me thats a much better arguement for it than a load of PC bull**** against.

^ once again Urban, well said. This is basically what I wanted to say, I just couldn't piece the words together. Excellent.

oh, I don't find it offensive whatsoever.....
how could you find someone making a choice offensive, I am offended only with the disregard for our laws that we all have to abide(unwillingly or not)
I just think, you can do whatever you want, just don't think you can kill and cause someone to fear for their lives in a country where it is unacceptable....
not saying that is what all West Indians do....it just seems that spousal abuse is more ok, and these women are scared to make a decision, when they have all the support in the world.....

Agreed.

Most of the women wearing those clothes accept them as there dress for reiligios and social resons. Just because the US does something dosnt mean the rest of the world should be doing it too. I just think its sad that American people have this attitude like muslims dont WANT to be Muslim. They have this idea that its somehow forced on them or something. And thats just insane. Its just another religion with different customs, nothing more nothing less. We dont pity Jews and try to free them because they wear skull caps. And we dont try to liberate the pope because he wears that funny hat. Its just another way to convince people to force other cultures to assimilate our belief systems.

Um, the idea that they are forced to wear that is not insane, it's a fact. In some countries in the middle east, it is against the law for a woman to be seen outside her own home without being covered properly. Aside from that, in these same countries, women aren't allowed to drive, leave the country without their husband's (or father's) permission, and a whole long list of other things that men are free to do without hassle. So no, in some countries, it's not only a matter of personal preference.

In many many many cases it is. Its part of Muslim cutlture. I have seen many muslim women in downtown Minneapolis wearing burkas. I do agree that women should have the choice to wear what they like, but for many muslim women there dress is very traditional. Obviosly not all women want to live in the same place forever and be in servatude to there husbands, but your missing the point I was trying to make. Many of these rules arn't argued because they are part of a sacred religion. Women wear burkas in many pats of the world because there religion dictates it, and they are very faithfull. i do agree that women are being repressed and there rights are being violated, but that dosnt change the fact that many of these women chose to wear burkas simply because there religion dictates it.

Yeah, if a woman is living in a part of the world that gives her the choice, then it's fine. Personally I think it's degrading, but I understand that they have a completely different upbringing and culture than I do (obviously, since I grew up in the middle east), so I don't have a problem with that. Unfortunately, some people don't realize that in certain parts of the world, they are required by law to wear it and merely pas it off with "well it's their choice, what's the big deal?"

Like I said I agree that its wrong that some of these women are forced to wear them or they will be lynched on the streets. And everyone should have at least the basic rights to decide what clothes you are or are not oing to wear. But I still maintian that The media has chosen to use Religious differences as a way to push there own agendas. And part of those religious differences is clothing.

push their own agendas? plz elaborate....

To be fair in a lot of those countries nobody has many rights , not just women.

^ true, but by saying that's their tradition or religion or that they like it doesn't change anything... talk about it... and in this thread we can talk about women.... muslim women, for example... but not only about that... complain about men's rights, if you'd like. but do not say that muslim women like being controlled and forced to merry 40 year old men when they're 18, k?

Im tired of all the extreme feminists there are now. I dont know if this should go in this thread, but they're bugging me so Ill put it in here anyway. It seems as though guys cant do anything any more without being accused of being sexist. Im all for equality and whatever but its a proven fact that guys do some things better than women. Some women are always ready to complain about men getting picked for an engineering job over them, but theyre quick to bring up the fact that women can multi-task better than men.

*Waits for complaints*

One side my family is asian & I know of some arranged marrages.It`s not limited to women or muslims. It`s the parents who arrange the marrages not the bride or the groom.In fact the men in arranged marrages have absolutley no say in it either, so I don`t see how that can be considered sexist. Some are happy to do it because it`s their faith , some are not. There`s nothing male/female in it.

exactly my viewpoint. women are always going to complain of descrimination due to history. but as you correctly said, men do some things better than women and vice versa. some women try to over-glorify their sex by going for archtypal male jobs- but thats fine, its their lives. but yes, back to the point, males basically cant win.

this is so funny,and its no hoax its from the independent-"Analysis of the "X" chromosome - the female sex chromosome - has revealed that women are genetically more complicated than men. The findings reveal that men have taken a genetic battering that has dwindled the size of their own "Y" chromosome...While women have two X chromosomes, men only have one, inherited from their mothers...Scientists showed yesterday that the X chromosome has retained its physical integrity while the Y of men has dwindled in size and power to become a shadow of its former self."

I'd agree with that. You get to a certain age when you realise women do hold all the cards, so you go and buy a shed to escape to.

More seriously, is it fair to consider this issue to be about faith (in the true sense of the word) or cultural pressure? How many of these women believe they are being treated fairly - and to those that do have faith - within the boundaries of their chosen religiion?

I believe a lot of these women are opressed, with the opressors hiding behind the facade of religion. Just because a woman "chooses" (and I use the word loosely) to continue these traditions in an apparently free country, does not mean she is less affected by the same cultural pressures.

There is light at the end of the tunnel for these women though (and I don't mean the US occupation of Iraq): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4349341.stm

Dave

But without that 'shadow' you`d fail to exist.

Hookers is completely right. When you're brought up that way, it's hard to change. Not to mention the fact that they probably don't WANT to change. Even the men there wouldn't want to see women dressed like that. I was in an elevator with a muslim man, and he wouldn't even look at any of the women in the elevator, including me(and I don't dress slutty). They can dress differently in America, but the majority want to respect their culture and hide themselves. Telling them to change that would be like telling the Village Peoploe to stop acting ***. Hopefully none of that sounded racist.

hey, most of you got this wrong... i actually happen to don't like girls or women very much (because of what some of them end up to be, looking like stupid barbie dolls or whatever). but i don't judge by appearances, i don't see a person like all the others, i know people have something special, even if they don't use it or show it. it's not about that. i completely hate the girl-power attitude and this thread is not about it. it was about how some women are forced by others to be or do something. MEN AND WOMEN SHOULD BE EQUAL, that's all

Should be, but arent. Its not that theyre treated unfairly, but men and women are different, like it or not.

yeah, i do know that.. and it's not about if i like it or not...

No I know, I wasnt referring to you really, just to all the gals I was talking about earlier...

women have no rights!

Like Apu?

Alright then, tell me why. Im interested now, I'd like to see how all these women are working as I type this, how they can support themselves financially, how they can vote, how they can do basically everything men have the right to do, and still have no rights.

true, but men do have many more rights that women don't have. The fact that every citizen is supressed to some degree isn't the issue here (although it is a big issue), it's the fact that women are denied a whole long list of things that makes it an issue. Cultural differences aside, women should have equal rights as men, and the bottom line is that this is far from happening in a lot of countries in the middle east, and in many other countries too.

:usehead: your smart posts have been missed :usehead:

Ok, cool, but don't say that they don't. Make a claim, back it up with research. Using emotionally charged descriptions of arranged marriages is hardly accurate, not all parents use it as some obscure way of selling off their children to get a good dowry. There isn't a "dating" culture in many Muslim countries, there isn't the same attitude to the issue. In the same vein plenty of western women who have become Muslim have taken to wearing the hijab and feel it liberates them from the perverted gaze of men. Yes in some cultures women are forced to wear it, but there's a flipside to the coin.

I also like that people seemed to ignore the text of the article and just read the headline and looked at the pictures: "Apparently they will not need to wear the black chador - instead their uniform will consist of trousers and a long coat, and maybe even a ski suit, depending on the mission."

I def agree with Urban Hatemonger on this one...they look at it from a different angle it is part of what they believe and how the feel...I just think its wrong because it took so long to let the woman on the force. I think everyone should have equal rights male or female when it comes to something of that nature.....

All these arguments "for" muslim extremism are geat and all (note the sarcasm), but what gets bad is when women there are punished because some man accidentally saw a womens ankles. Thats just ****ing ridiculous. Nobody should be forced by the government to follow bull**** like that. It may be what most would choose, but not all, and thats the point. You should have the choice.

I don't see any arguments for Muslim extremism.

I see arguments for Muslim culture , but thats all.

Ok, that's cool. Wanna quote the person who said that though? Or wait, are you just trying to make a controversial point for the sake of getting attention.

Okay so the Muslim culture is being forced to follow strict muslim laws?... I don't think so. The keyword here is forced.

As much as care about the attention of some random internet person I don't know thats not the reason I said that...

I agree. It offends me to see women with that much clothing on. All women should be naked, all of the time.

Why you said it is moot, fact is you made a generalised statement saying we're supporting "Muslim extremism" without backing it up with references of anybody actually doing so, refusing to do so once challenged. Ergo you're nothing but a petty shit stirrer.

Other members reading:
http://www.untwistedvortex.com/wp-co...edthetroll.jpg

Actually whats annoying to me is that everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that they are forced to follow these laws. People are saying stuff like "..they are happy b/c its their religion". And thats total b.s. Who can say that everyone in those countries want to be following the muslim religion? The radical muslim governments are censoring anything that is not in line with muslim teachings, forcing people to do things that they should have a choice on etc. etc.

Don't get me wrong I'm not like prejudice against muslims or anything but cmon now... If you guys dont see whats wrong there well I'll just give up and leave.