Ruin Your Own F*cking Thread You Bastards

[Violent & Funky]

Originally Posted by Dirty

I think the NFL 'ignored' it for a long time because... how do you really fix it?

I think they "ignored" it because they didn't understand it. There wasn't reliable data, head injuries weren't well understood in the medical community, and it wasn't something that was getting public attention.

Our nation's history is littered with problems that needed regulation. Just ask Upton Sinclair...

[VEGANGELICA]

Originally Posted by Dirty

Your original post didn't say anything about the efforts they have been trying to make recently. for those who don't follow the NFL closely like I do, it made it look like the NFL was still ignoring problems so that's why I had to mention their recent efforts.

Dirty, my original post linked to this article - Concussions and Head Injuries in Football - The New York Times - which describes the newer safety regulations the NFL is implementing and the fact that the NFL has been criticized for years because of not doing anything earlier when medical evidence showed the bad long-term effects of concussions. I also wrote that "I am mocking the NFL League leadership for having refused for so long to make the game safer for players," which implies they are now trying to do so, but did not for years.

Originally Posted by Dirty

Blaming fans for football injuries is RIDICULOUS. So because I buy a ticket to a game, I now support brain injuries?

When people pay money to see some event, they *are* supporting it and endorsing what happens, so I feel some responsibility rests with the fans whose money allows the events to continue.

Originally Posted by Dirty

I think the NFL 'ignored' it for a long time because... how do you really fix it? I don't think they had any ideas on what to really do about brain injuries. They still don't really know.

You do some of what you mention: prevent certain hits that are known to be the most dangerous, and never send someone back into the game who has received a head injury. Plus you educate the players about the long-term damage of concussions...which the NFL is finally doing.

Originally Posted by Dirty

Murder instances over games are such isolated instances. 99,99% of fans, at the worst, will get pissed off and chuck their remote across the room after a loss or drop a few F-bombs around the house...and by the end of the day they are cooled down and just disappointed in the loss.

My example of murder occurring due to fan conflict over American football was serving as an extreme example of how this "game" becomes much more than just "fun" to some fans. Are you aware of the degree of rioting and violent behavior due to American football fans, as described in this article?

American Football: Oakland riots highlight ugly side of US sport - More Sports, Sport - The Independent

Riots at US sports events occur far more frequently than they do in the UK. And yet, in American popular culture, the "hooligan" is almost without exception portrayed as a soccer fan (and nearly always as English).

That's the wonder of American sports. There are fistfights, showers of beer (and faeces, canned dog food and coins), portable toilets kicked over with opposition fans inside them, knifings, deafening verbal abuse, full-scale riots, cars set alight, disabled fans stripped and their clothing destroyed, players puking because they've breathed in the pepper spray used by police to dissuade two sets of fans from kicking the sweet bejesus out of each other - and not a single hooligan in sight. Amazing when you think about it.

And now on to Urban's comment. Saving the best for last!

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

Of course there's risk, there's risk every time you wake up in the mornings. And I do have a permanent reminder of my rugby days in the form of a blown out knee, never had a concussion, never had any head injury but these things happen, just as you can get them from riding a bike.

How about that? Maybe we ban bikes because they're dangerous & cause head injuries too and just have people driving around in great big padded 4 x 4's instead.

Erica dear you're a nice lady but sometimes you really do talk a load of rubbish.

Dear Richard, you are a very nice gentleman, truly (when you want to be ), but sometimes I feel you don't investigate issues very thoroughly and you are quick to discount much of what I say as rubbish when almost everything I write has some validity to it (if not everything ).

If I am talking rubbish when I blast the NFL for not concerning itself with protecting players from concussions until recent years, then I am doing so along with numerous sports commentators, the U.S. Congress, and parents of children who are permanently injured or dead due to concussions and inappropriate responses to injuries in American football at the high school and college levels. Do you realize how many players of American football have suffered brain injury due to concussions? I am not the only one concerned:

Biggest Challenge for NFL's Concussion Policy Is Changing Attitudes - NFL - NESN.com

Perhaps more than any other sport, professional football is hardest on the human body. Players retire and live with constant pain for the rest of their lives. Many are unable to walk without help, and in some more serious cases, such as Johnson's, the fallout is much more severe.

However, despite the brutal and violent nature of the sport, the NFL protects its players physically much less than the other major professional sports. The NHL [National Hockey League] has seen a drastic reduction in concussions and head injuries because of harsher penalties for checking from behind, the behavior most likely to result in head injuries.

Because of the NFL’s notoriously weak player's union and the lack of job security, players are conditioned to act in a manner that will have them on the field, no matter the ultimate price, even in regards to their health.

You may have wished to risk yourself and your life, but many people want to learn how to have fun playing a sport they love while reducing the chance of serious injury. Yes, everything we do involves risk...crossing the street has risk, playing the violin has risk (joint pain! Gouged eye!)...but I feel being concerned about how to do activities safely is not rubbish but wisdom.

I'm glad that the NFL is now trying to educate players so they are better protected. Why would you oppose safety measures that can make a big difference in the safety of players?

I'm also glad you didn't get severely injured playing rugby, presumably league . I'm sorry that so many players of American football have not been so lucky, often due to simple lack of attention to important safety measures that should have been taken, such as making sure helmets pass standards that actually protect athletes effectively:

Helmet Safety Unchanged as Injury Concerns Rise
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/sp...elmets.html?hp
Published: October 20, 2010

More than 100,000 children are wearing helmets too old to provide adequate protection — and perhaps half a million more are wearing potentially unsafe helmets that require critical examination, according to interviews with experts and industry data.

Helmets both new and used are not — and have never been — formally tested against the forces believed to cause concussions.

Awareness of head injuries in football was heightened last weekend when helmet-first collisions caused the paralysis of a Rutgers University player, a concussion to Philadelphia Eagles receiver DeSean Jackson and injuries to three other N.F.L. players. Although some injuries are unavoidable results of football physics, helmet standards have not kept up with modern football, industry insiders said.

Finally, here's a quote about football and safety from USA Today that I like very much, in particular because of the last line, which summarizes my "rubbish" view on the risks faced when playing American football:

Our view on football: Sunday's lights-out body count shows NFL needs to change - USATODAY.com

Players down to the pee-wee leagues take their cues from their NFL heroes. If vicious helmet hits are treated lightly and celebrated in NFL highlights, young players get the message that the way to succeed is to ensure that opponents get "jacked up!"

The NFL can push its own players and younger ones in a healthier direction. But it will need to do more than lay out strict policies. It will need to ensure that this is a turning point, in enforcement and in attitudes. Hitting is a part of pro football. Maiming should not be.

Of course, if *I* had control of the NFL, I'd convert it to flag football overnight!

The players could still smack each other's ass, though. I always like that part!

[Violent & Funky]

[Dirty]

The NFL League officials have fought efforts to make the sport safer for the players...because, of course, that would cut into how much money team owners, etc., can make. Such a noble game! (Yes, I am mocking the NFL League leadership for having refused for so long to make the game safer for players.)

This is what you originally said. When I read that, I don't see any implications or talk about the work the NFL HAS been doing to try and limit injuries and keep the game as safe as possible.

What you said doesn't even make sense at times.. "because, of course, that would cut into how much money team owners, etc., can make. Such a noble game!" And how exactly does ignoring safety measures cost owners money? What, you think fans are gonna stop coming to the game because of less big hits? Fans are WAY more likely to stop coming to games because a player is injured and out for the season.


NOBODY, whether on this forum or anywhere, is arguing that maiming should be a part of the NFL. Players have been getting fined for YEARS for unnecessary hits.

American football riots hardly EVER happen. Being a huge NFL fan, who lives in the USA, I can assure you that American football fans are far less rowdy than soccer fans. Soccer fans are portrayed as hooligans because a lot of them are. Throwing stuff all over the field, starting racist chants (happened recently, i forget who was playing), violence in the stands, etc. These things are 100 times worse in soccer than football.

[Freebase Dali]

Vegangelica's Rules For The Future World:

• Competitive sports with more violence than golf or table tennis are not allowed. This means Football (US), Football, Hockey, Basketball, Baseball, and any other sport that involves people running at high speeds. Modifications to these sports are allowed, as such:

1. US Football must be flag football. No running is allowed, as to avoid potentially running into someone, or stepping on someone's toe.
2. Football can remain mostly the same, except no running is allowed, nor any type of tackle.
3. Hockey must be done in a sand-pit. If the logistics of this cannot be worked out, then you don't want to play Hockey bad enough.
4. Basketball will not allow running, and the goals will be shortened to the height of the smallest man on the team. Not only does this promote equality, but prevents someone who may be dunking from falling a great distance to the floor. If you have seen a black man jump, you will know this is necessary.
5. Baseball will swap to a Nerf ball and bat, made of foam. And no running.
6. All other sports will strictly observe the above rules that apply. Also, in addition to these rules, there will be a general rule that, through the use of a special referee, will ensure that each team wins equal amounts of points and that everyone goes home a winner.

• Meat will absolutely not be eaten, at any time, by any one. Government will replace meat-worker jobs and meat farming positions with the governmental position known as Animal Police Task Force. These people will be financially aided by the government, and their sole function will be to interfere with any animal that attempts to eat another animal. Since animals cannot use morality for their choice of diet, humans will provide that service by proxy. If, in time, the animal kingdom overpopulates, humans shall be rocketed off to an unknown direction in space to make room for the animals here on earth.
• All members of society in every culture will be made to look identical where possible, as to discourage societal influencing factors based on attraction, preference and bias. A natural state will be de jure, which means, by law, all bodily hair or otherwise will be unobstructed from natural growth, and body shape must be genetically determined and not manipulated by the lifting of weights or dieting.
• Movies will not be allowed to make anything they depict appear different than they actually are. All filming techniques other than point-and-shoot, with home video cameras, are illegal.
• Free expression will be limited to only the expression that does not influence someone else.

Finally, all men and women are to be equal in every regard. Men shall be ordered by law to pee sitting down, like women. Technology will be focused on enabling men to have all the biological parts necessary for carrying, and giving birth. By law, every other household will enforce this technology on the male, while the female will be required to get a job at a factory that has no air conditioning.

The above are a small portion of the changes that will be made to your lives. No longer will there be a society that charts its own course. The course of society will be charted for you, and static in all regards. There will be no future apart from maintaining the present. Deviation from this will result in strict, harsh punishment.

May we all live unhappily equal lives.

[Dirty]

So....because I eat seafood, I support the death of men at sea who catch crabs, right?

You're whole view is that of a VERY slippery slope

[Spike*Spiegel]

@ Freebase

[Violent & Funky]

That's the best post I've ever read on this site and this best thing I have read anywhere in a long, long time!

[crash_override]

I don't support taking the hits out of football, but everytime I hear Troy Aiman or Steve Young talk, it's pretty pathetic. They're both semi-retarded from from multiple concussions they've had from the game, and that's sad.

Bottom line, it's American Football, one of the most dangerous sports in the world. If we take the hard hitting tough guys out, it will just be soccer except you can carry and throw the ball.

How is it that the NFL has made it nearly 100 years playing the most barbaric sport on the planet and head injuries are being addressed only now? I say, players aren't as tough as they once were. How about instead of changing the rules, you recruit and sign tougher players? There would be no such thing as a defenseless receiver if the receiver was equally as big and strong as the person hitting them.

If these players can't take a hit, maybe they should switch to Baseball, or Soccer.

[anticipation]

Originally Posted by crash_override

I don't support taking the hits out of football, but everytime I hear Troy Aiman or Steve Young talk, it's pretty pathetic. They're both semi-retarded from from multiple concussions they've had from the game, and that's sad.

Bottom line, it's American Football, one of the most dangerous sports in the world. If we take the hard hitting tough guys out, it will just be soccer except you can carry and throw the ball.

How is it that the NFL has made it nearly 100 years playing the most barbaric sport on the planet and head injuries are being addressed only now? I say, players aren't as tough as they once were. How about instead of changing the rules, you recruit and sign tougher players? There would be no such thing as a defenseless receiver if the receiver was equally as big and strong as the person hitting them.

If these players can't take a hit, maybe they should switch to Baseball, or Soccer.

That's easy; they haven't. American football is far from the most barbaric sport on earth, and the game has only been getting more and more benign as time has passed. It's funny that a game that is only played by a few select countries is regarded as one of the world's most influential and important sports. For example, rugby features harder hits, faster plays, and no padding and receives no scrutiny from the mainstream media. Hockey has had players die, paralyzed, and put into a vegetative state for over 100 years, and they're just now making incredibly feeble attempts at retributive punishments for those who head hunt.

Saying football is the most barbaric sport in the world is a little far-fetched, and in my opinion any movement away from physicality in sports is a bastardization of competitive play.