it ashame that he died but i hope that he gains all grace he needs to be allowwed to stand with the saints and the angel before the good Lord may he rest in peace

The pope who was anti abortion, anti womens' rights, homophobic, and anti contraception amongst other things.. an excellent leader? Im not ashamed, you should be for condoning such "leadership" in the year 2005.

1. the pope was polish so Rome could keep power over Poland when it became communist..

2. the pope didnt even admit to the holocaust until 6 years ago!!!

True, he may have had certain "liberal" views--opposing the imperialist war/occupation in Iraq, speaking in support of the Palestinians, etc., but he constantly contradicted himself (i.e. saying the Israel is superior to the Palestinians, as well as not disputing the Israeli apartheid government's legitimacy). It is also worth mentioning that, while he opposed the war in Iraq, he supported the overtly reactionary ideals of the politicians who initiated it.
He also opposed "liberation theology" (or ideology?)--the idea that religion could be taught/practiced from an anti-authoritarian perspective. For this reason, he was opposed to the Quakers. The pope and the whole catholic religion for that matter, has some issues. No grief from me on his death.

Screw that, who cares what colour they are, a more liberal pope is all I wanna see, I'll even keep my trap shut about how sexist the whole thing is. There's been at least three black Pope's already in the Church's first 500 years. The main coloured candidate is Nigerian, Cardinal Francis Arinze, who also holds conservative views on contraception and family issues. I want to see Cardinal Godfried Danneels of Brussels, the most liberal of serious contenders who hasd already urged the Vatican to allow women to hold posts normally taken by cardinals and said that condoms can be used in the fight against Aids. Seeing as there are currently 39.4 million people living with HIV globally and every day as many as 1,300 children die from HIV and Aids-related illnesses across the world I think thats gonna be a step in the right direction.

:clap:

once i see this as a fact with hardcore evidence, then i'll believe it.

children die every 3 seconds unnecisserally

it makes sense because of the vastness of africa and asia- which both have big cathoilic numbers. plus you've got south america (presume thats not included).

I swear in RS we learnt they wernt christian. also, there is noooo way White America and Europe is outnumbered in Catholism (is that the right suffix?)

More importantly - stu - msn boy. im quite clearly bored

The pope was still a very GOOD man think of the people whose lives were saved because of the charity he comanded., abortion is wrong in its own right because why kill babies unessicerily when there are people to adopt them, besisde it increase the risk of dying by 37% and complications when you want to have children later!!.

think we've established he was a good man.

good man?????? hmmm, nobody must of read my earlier post about what a fuck this guy was, goodbye and good riddance, give the next hatemonger his silly hat, nothing will change, that whole religion is wrong.

*sighs, taps feet* What a moronic thing to come out with.

how is it moronic? explain please. so i can respond, i got an itchy trigger finger today, and this is the perfect topic for me to rant about.

Well...
 

You can't define a religion as wrong... unless of course you know everything about it and were alive to see the various "wrongdoings" of this religion. Of course im presuming you were alive to disprove Jesus' existence etc otherwise you wouldn't have said it...It's like a scumbags version of racism what you have INSCRIBED IN YOUR SAVAGE SCRIPTURE OF DENTISTRY. If i were to go flat out and say
"Judaism? oh thats all lies" id be labelled a facist ****piece, and rightfully so, id appreciate it if you either thinked before you speak, or didnt say any derogatory(?) at all.
And you've "got an itchy trigger finger"? oh dear, its a walking teutonic cliché factory.

"The church is wrong" is what i should of sayed and uses "religion" as a cover that has perpetuated and blessed the massacre of millions and millions of men and women, tortured, burned, killed in the name of the cross. Me saying that the religion is wrong probably could of been worded better, ill agree with you.

They sing hymns for his pacifism in Iraq, but forget that he sustained and justified the war that bloodied ex-Yugoslavia. With the catholic cross, against muslims and the orthodox, the pope of religious "ecumenicism" made a saint of Stepinac, the cardinal who with the croatian fascists that lined up with Hitler, said they were "sent by God" and blessed the innumerable atrocities perpetrated by the croatian Ustase regime with the complicity of the occupying italian troops.A culture that prefers a life of pain to one of joy and health, a culture that criminalized ***s, that transformed desire and love into guilt, that defends those who haven't been born and persecutes those that live.
He had sanctified the spanish priests that line up with arms with the catholic-fascist troops of Franco. These martyred saints wanted to revive the glories of the church of Torquemada and of the Quemaderos, the "collective ovens" where the heretics were cooked at a low simmer.

The study of religions past and present has always been a "hobby" of mine. I think i know what im talking about on this, thats where the walking teutonic cliché "itchy trigger finger" comes from. I was up for a good debate, and was hoping someone would be up for it. The pope wasnt a good guy, his beliefs were outdated (anti abortion, anti womens' rights, homophobic, and anti contraception) and shouldnt be praised by people now days. I choose not to bow to their knees in front of the funeral of the head of the most ferocious, bloody, and freedom-destroying organization that history can remember. You can if you want...Now im gonna go eat lunch, and look forward to your reply.

I'm reading this, and this only cause it's an adult response. From glancing at the rest it looks like regurgitated propaganda that lacks any validity in my eyes. Thank you for the self-correction, very adult of you, i bid you good-day.

OH BUT I STAND CORRECTED, I SIMPLY MUST
You live in America, i believe your president carries this title.

um, yeah, im not a 12 year old kid posting to sound smart, im 28 and grew up in a very religious catholic home. In layman's terms: The wars, tortures, and the sainting of Stepinac (do some research on this guy, he was no "saint") that I listed are all very real and very true. The popes beliefs I pointed out - true. sorry if it sounds like propaghanda, just stating the facts.

not a big fan of the president either, nor will i be bowing to his casket when he dies. Or praising him in anyway, hell, i wouldnt even call him a good guy.

Cool, um, yeah, im 16, i grew up with Irish relatives that i spent more time than my parents with, who both had strong Biblical beliefs, ensuring that i knew about Jesus, God, Cain & Abel, oh the whole shebang. I know what its like, don't instantly dismiss someone you know nothing about, the only result is that you will show yourself up. Im sure being 28 has somewhere taught you along the line never to make assumptions. Assume makes an ass out of u and me

i agree with a lot of stuff you have said.
HOWEVER, "freedom destroying"? "ferocious"? we are talking about john paul II here- the guy who risked his life in the polish resistance to save jews and provide them with freedom. the guy who has travelled the globe trying to unite religions so as to create a more peaceful existance. the guy who was of paramount importance in the abolishment of communism in eastern europe. if thats destroying freedom then mother theresa was a satanist. sure, his beliefs are slightly old fashioned but we all have separate ideas of an ideal world. you sound like your talking about bloody hitler.

Plus i think anti-abortion is supported by a lot of people regardless of their religion, its technically murder in some peoples books. However us men can hardly talk about it because women understand it far more than we ever will, it is them that have a human being growing inside of them, an experience we will never......experience.

I think I appreciate life so much that when I hear about death, I get chills down my spine. I dont care if you're good or bad, religious or not, think about all the moments that have lead up to your life as of now, and have that all taken away. Scary bone-chilling sh*t if you ask me. the pope did good things, there are people who loved him, and a loss of this magnitude should be mourned, regardless of religion.

I think thats the best and most apt post ive read since i joined. Thank you.

"freedom destroying" "ferocious" - in context - what i said - "the head of the most ferocious, bloody, and freedom-destroying organization" I couldnt imaging the pope himself being ferocious, although thats a pretty funny picture when i think about it.

I totally agree, people should have the right to not ever have an abortion, but I also think that they should also have the RIGHT to have one if they want. Its not my choice, not your choice, but the persons choice, to take away that persons choice is not acceptable in my mind.

yea thats what im getting at with the rest of that quote. Women will know more about it so how is it a mans decision? But of course if everyone agreed on everything we wouldnt have anything to discuss or this very music forum!

it would eliminate the concept of free-will which isnt acceptable at all.

Something God (if you will) wanted his creations to have.

Not once did i dismiss any of your arguments, or assume anything about you, I didnt make this personal, nor was i trying to insult you in anyway. Im heading home, works over, have a lovely day, hopefully we can continue this at another time. (thanks for passing the time by the way, which is all i wanted to do by getting into this debate)

i got that impression from the 12 year old remark.

So should women not vote for Pres since one's never been President? Nice try, but lacking sense.

ahh well than thats a misunderstanding, i was letting you know that im not a 12 year old, not insinuating that you were. You mentioned something about an "adult post" or something of that nature, and i was stating yes, i am an adult.

well i'm not going to make excuses, bt the Church when through the same when we started and there were many Christians boiled, burnt, beheaded massacared, scourged, cruxsified, beat tortured, hung ,and sent to be killed by animals.

And that to still goes on today, look at china, n.korea, india, middle east, and the east indies, so don't go at it with me on this subject, i've studied it as well.
plesae at least don't be biased.

he wasnt going on at you at all. and im pretty sure hes not being bias. the church views are outdated, thats pretty obvious.

The Catholic Church is in league with the Orthodox(chatholic) Church, they have their differnces but they hav been coming to terms with it and they have peace between them.

i'm not saying that he is just making sure he isn't, yes some veiws are outdated but that is not a reason to b**** about.

it is if your unhappy about it.

i was stating facts, thats not being biased, i agree china, n.korea, india, middle east, the east indies and other religious extremists do the same, i dont agree with them either, so by adding that "they do it too" does sound like youre excusing their actions to me. I dont feel really like debating this again today, I think i made my point yesterday. (by the way, this is my 666 post, ironic...dont you think?)

it just tradition, and that is why the protestant reformation happened in the first place was because they wanted it changed, or esle none of the other churches would have came around.