Trite sayings that people think are profound.

windsock · 12-01-2018, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Can you answer my question?

No, I do not. And for previously stated reasons I'm not calling them the same thing because of it.

Lucem Ferre · 12-01-2018, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsock

LMAO Frown please be my guest and debunk religion right here and now. Totally. With complete, indisputable, verifiable proof that cannot be vetoed by any sort of logic to boot. You'd be saving the human race a great deal of hardship it's gone through since we gained cognizance.

The truth is you can't disprove the existence of a deity because of how slippery of a concept it is.

"Well how do you explain lightning, Christian?"

"Magic."

When the power of god, aka magic comes into play, literally every scientific concept gets thrown out of the window. And you can't disprove it because of how incredibly intangible it is. There's a reason that such a large amount of the Earth's population is religious, because you can't just walk up to them and say "you're wrong because of 1 2 and 3 and there's absolutely no logical reasoning, fanciful or otherwise, that can disprove me" because the concept of religion is inherently disprovable.

The essential argument against religion, putting aside the countless upon countless piles of scientific evidence to say the contract, is occam's razor. The reason people are atheists is because when they're faced with the concept of an uncaring and chaotic universe and a mythological magical sky daddy, they're likely to shave Yaweh off.

There are atheist religions. Some that even believe in magic. Except they call it magick for some stupid reason.

windsock · 12-01-2018, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

It's because it's commonly thought that the lack of a higher meaning is negative when that's just a matter of opinion. We already went over this.

At the same time it also says that not all pessimists are nihilists. If you want to truly revel in pessimism you'd believe that we were all created to suffer. Actually, I think Frown already said that.

Again, I'm not saying the lack of higher meaning is negative. I'm saying it's pessimistic. I already went over this as well.

If you were a true pessimist you'd believe that because existence is meaningless, progress is futile and the continuance of such is pointless because it's not like we're going to go anywhere anyway. It's an extremely anti-life-affirming way of viewing things, and nihilism differs in the way that although it agrees existence is overall meaningless, it takes a more optimistic view in areas like human progress.

WWWP · 12-01-2018, 11:15 PM

Nietzsche referred to "dionysian pessimism," an embrace of life as it is in all of its constant change and suffering without appeal to progress or hedonistic calculus.

**Frownland** · 12-01-2018, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsock

LMAO Frown please be my guest and debunk religion right here and now. Totally. With complete, indisputable, verifiable proof to boot. You'd be saving the human race a great deal of hardship it's gone through since we gained cognizance.

The truth is you can't disprove the existence of a deity because of how slippery of a concept it is.

"Well how do you explain lightning, Christian?"

"Magic."

When the power of god, aka magic comes into play, literally every scientific concept gets thrown out of the window. And you can't disprove it because of how incredibly intangible it is. There's a reason that such a large amount of the Earth's population is religious, because you can't just walk up to them and say "you're wrong because of 1 2 and 3 and there's absolutely no logical reasoning, fanciful or otherwise, that can disprove me" because the concept of religion is inherently disprovable.

The essential argument against religion, putting aside the countless upon countless piles of scientific evidence to say the contract, is occam's razor. The reason people are atheists is because when they're faced with the concept of an uncaring and chaotic universe and a mythological magical sky daddy, they're likely to shave Yaweh off.

Because being infalsifiable makes Christianity equatable to atheism, right? Flying spaghetti monster blah blah blah it's a weak false equivalency that you're invoking.

windsock · 12-01-2018, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Because being infalsifiable makes Christianity equatable to atheism, right? Flying spaghetti monster blah blah blah it's a weak false equivalency that you're invoking.

Not really that false. There's reasons why religious debate tends to be polar. Infalsifiability is what drives the discourse, or else one side would have triumphed over the other a long time ago.

Lucem Ferre · 12-01-2018, 11:18 PM

But pessimism is assuming or seeing the worst so to call it a pessimistic view is to say it's bad.

Since pessimism is such a subjective thing, I'm not really sure if there could be a 'true pessimist'.

**Frownland** · 12-01-2018, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsock

Not really that false.

Seems like you don't really understand atheism, then.

Religious debates are polar because they often start off with a faulty premise.

WWWP · 12-01-2018, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

But pessimism is assuming or seeing the worst so to call it a pessimistic view is to say it's bad.

Since pessimism is such a subjective thing, I'm not really sure if there could be a 'true pessimist'.

Philosophically it's less about good vs bad and more a judgement of the functionality of societal progress and/or creating personal meaning.

windsock · 12-01-2018, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

But pessimism is assuming or seeing the worst so to call it a pessimistic view is to say it's bad.

Since pessimism is such a subjective thing, I'm not really sure if there could be a 'true pessimist'.

I'm still not sure that traditional, behavioral pessimism is as linked to philosophical pessimism as you think. They certainly share most concepts (they're both pessimism, after all), and the argument that philo pessimism is just glass-half-empty on a grand scale could probably be debated. I haven't read enough about the two to understand the more specific nuances.

And I agree that a true pessimist probably couldn't exist, and neither could a true optimist. Similarly, I don't think a "true" nihilist could exist either because they'd either being a husk of a person or a husk that's hellbent on destroying things that it perceives to be meaningless, i.e. everything. Perhaps such an individual has existed in the past but I haven't heard of 'em.