Beliefs
 

After a conversation with a friend the other day I was surprised to find out she's now a born again christian and has been for the past 2 years

Anyhow the question of what do I believe in came around and for the life of me I couldn't think of a single thing
Is this normal or do some of us go through life with no set beliefs of any sort?

Please elaborate on having no set of beliefs. Do you mean in a religious sense or do you mean you literally do not believe anything?

Religious/spiritual etc.........Yeah I could have worded it a little better

I think it's perfectly normal to not have experienced any religious "phase" of sorts. A lot of what people believe has to do with what they were exposed to growing up. If religion or spirituality wasn't a part of your macrosystem it would make sense that it's not something you subscribe to.

Fair enough. I am a little amazed at the amount of people who feel compelled to ask why I choose not to believe

Tell me about it. I'm an ordained atheist reverend pursuing a Ph.D in Religious Studies.

Different lol. I'm just a self confessed non believer. Guess that makes me an atheist

I'm an atheist who lives in a heavily Christian populated area. I'm been getting dirty looks for years. Especially the 18 years I spent in church. Once I was out from under my moms thumb, she knew I wouldn't be going back. We don't discuss it anymore.

I couldn't honestly tell you who's what around here, but one thing I have noticed of late is the amount of people who are becoming born agains

I hold the notion that I'm one of 7 billion people on this planet living among people who are infinitely smarter than me and nobody can agree on what the hell is going on up there.

What the hell do I know? I'll find out when I die and live for me and my family/friends.

Looks like rain to me;)

Where I grew up it was considered kind of inappropriate to be too outspoken about one's religious beliefs, and when it was discussed, it was generally in an intellectual kind of way. As a result I had a very live-and-let-live, nobody-knows-for-sure attitude toward religion. It wasn't until I moved around the country a bit and started running into more and more pushy religious people that I started to develop more of a you-don't-know-what-you're-talking-about, leave-me-the-hell-alone position.

Awesome :love:

I believe in facts.

I'm not an expert but the things I know and have heard about religions just don't make sense to me. I don't see how it's possible for a supposedly all-knowing, all-powerful being to be as human as depicted by religion(s). A god completely outside of any known religion seems more plausible, though I still have my doubts.

OK I just now happened to be watching "The God Who Wasn't There" on Netflix




At 34 minutes they start talking about the "Rapture". They interview a guy named Scott Butcher, who goes on to mention that he started this website, "upon inspiration by God (I believe)"

Rapture Letters

Uh-huh :bowdown:

^ :laughing:

Yeah mate basically the same as you.

Was brought up as a Christian, went to church on Sundays and all that. Got to about 16/17 and started to think it was nonsense.

I think Christianity is basically nonsense. I would have nothing against religions, if they even,followed their own rules but many Christian people I know don't even know what is a thing called love. They just talk about their rules and talk about sins, but not much more. Sounds like a boring life.
I don't need any religions personally, at least not in that part of my life. But everyone is free to believe in whatever he wants as long as he/she won't hurt anyone, you know.

The Atheist Delusion - YouTube

To believe in a fact we first have to know a fact is indeed fact. But to know whether a fact is a fact we have to experience it using something other than our own nervous system. And that's impossible.

Thus all knowledge, all facts, are nowt but subjective experiences. All we can ever do is explain how things seem to us because any description of something that fails to include the instrument used to take the measurement is incomplete. Everything is a transaction, an interaction.

Our senses, our brains, they filter and colour information, and yes it's a cliche, but we all create the reality we experience. Little wonder people believe in Gods, and I say let them, we all put our faith in illusions because reality is an illusion.

I will smite all you unbelievers with the unimaginable power of Satan!

:laughing:

I have a feeling this argument is not gonna go anywhere but whatever. You're doing your usual shindig where you just bury a very inaccurate point under a bunch of very vague and 'zen' language.

No, we don't need to experience something without the use of our nervous system to know it's a fact. Water will evaporate when heated to a certain temperature whether a person's nervous system is involved or not. We may have invented the language to describe the phenomena but it would occur even if human beings or any other living creatures never existed to witness and describe the event.

If people who blindly believed in things were harmless I wouldn't be bothered by their choosing to do so. But in many ways that's not the case, religion has caused more damage than it's repaired and a lot of what I've seen of it is corrosive to a person's understanding of reality and their ability to empathize with people who don't share their "beliefs". I hope our species will continue to evolve and that pack-like mentality dwindles into nothingness before something kills us all so one day we'll live in a world were people aren't afraid of anything they wouldn't find in a mirror. Of that too I have doubts.

Think of it as a discussion - not an argument, I ain't out to prove or disprove anything.

As for appearing vague and zen, I suspect you and I have different understandings regarding what zen is. It ain't some mystical condition, it ain't some loft wisdom, indeed it's closer to how a simpleton might operate; in short it's simply living in the moment and not subjecting it to mental conditions and abstractions. An exceedingly simple concept. But enough about zen, I might start sounding like I know what I'm talking about when I don't. :laughing:

Religion has caused great damage, granted, but it also provides hope and solace. People use religion in different ways, saying it's good or saying it's bad is to see but half the picture. Those who take God into their hearts, in my experience, are tolerant souls full of humanity. The prophets I have read didn't promote hatred or bigotry or homophobia and any so-called religious person who uses God to promote hatred has missed the original message, has missed the essence of the teaching.

Furthermore, recent research suggests we are religious by nature, that part of our brain is wired for religious experiences, another study concluded that the religious live longer, happier lives than the non-religious. God, Dharma, Brahman, Tao, Nature, The Supreme Master, call it what you will, but it would seem there are genuine, real world benefits to believing in the divine.

That's a fair point on what positivity religion does provide but it's not like religion is all that provides that. And that hope and solace religion provides can be misleading. You can pray all you want but it won't make a difference if you've just been diagnosed with something like AIDS in some 3rd world country with ****ty or no health care.

Human beings are violent by nature too and correlation doesn't prove causation. Any study that explicitly says being religious results in a longer life shouldn't be taken seriously and is probably funded by a religious institution. Statistics like that should always be looked upon wearily.

If through prayer those in adverse situations find the resolve to live out the remaining weeks and months of their lives with a sense of peace, then it makes a difference.

My understanding of prayer is it's about inner transformation, not miracles. Regular prayer reshapes the brain the same way as regular meditation.

The problem with this kind of thinking is it basically leads nowhere. To say that since our perception might be imperfect, everything is equally subjective is to throw away the only tool we have at gauging reality. Maybe we can't obtain pure objectivity, but some things are closer to objective than others. Case in point:
If you had no confidence in our ability to approach objectivity then citing any study that says anything at all would be absolutely pointless. I could negate your study with a simple "I don't believe that" and neither of us would be any closer to the truth.

I can accept that. Having a secular preference is I guess close-minded and hypocritical.

I hear ya, but I'm not advocating throwing away the only tool we have. It might well be that some of our 'knowledge' is true, but we can never know if it's true. That doesn't mean all study and research is pointless, or that we should cease asking questions or seeking understanding. I guess what I'm trying to say is we should keep an open mind. We should believe in nothing while being prepared to believe in anything, if that makes sense.

There's a lot of Cartesian nonsense being spewed here.

I typed out a response to the op but I'm just gonna leave this here and call it good

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5efaccc0.png


but then for myself:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln...liojo1_500.gif

I believe in love also.......Just not people. People love is fickle and mostly a convenience thing for when it suits them

You obviously have the false definition of "love" then

Far from it

You go ahead and think that, precious :)

People will always, no matter what, let you down. Doesn't matter if you've known them for minutes, hours or a lifetime or whether you think you're in love with them.

I you say that isn't true then you're a liar.

If you really think that, well...If I thought that I would just go ahead and kill myself.

My brother and sister, for starters, whom I've obviously known all my life (we're all in our fifties) have never let me down.

That is without question the most cynical thing I've ever heard anyone say

Maybe all the people I know and are related to are just a bunch of shallow, out for their own gain a holes..........Dunno and i'm not about about to question them on their motives

Or maybe you have unfair, unrealistic expectations of them.

I'm not saying you do, I'm not trying to play Dr. Phil here (that's Charlie's job), but I've known people that have done that.

I expect nothing other than friendship in return, but all I seem to get is people who only choose to be friends if I have something that will benefit them. You know the type. The ones who only take an interest if they want to borrow something

Perhaps my judge of character is miscalculated? who can say, but it's an ongoing thing