I think the only overarching problem to males in society, isn't even much of a rights thing, but the toxicity of masculinity and male gender norms.

Masculinity is no more toxic than femininity. Enforced masculinity is the problem, just like enforced femininity. Another thing that is toxic is demonizing masculinity, cause where the **** does that leave masculine men? A shotgun in the mouth?

Nah, you're just bitter cause they beat you up in high school. And rightfully so probably.

Only if they impose their beliefs on the rest of us, which is why it's a toxic mindset in the first place.

And of course I believe the same for femininity, just the issue on hand is why MRA is mostly bull****.

I don't like when someone posts a YT video as an argument. But I'm going to because Dan Olsen is excellent at this:


Toxic masculinity is not a judgment on manhood, masculine attributes, etc. The video essay is fantastic and as someone who hasn't watched Fight Club since high school, I realize I had the conception of the film ass-backwards.

Well that's kind of the problem with your idea. When you tell men they shouldn't act like what they see as how men should act, while the other half of society is telling them they can't cry, let a woman pay for dinner, or let someone call them a ***got without throwing down, and nobody's trying to meet anyone in the middle... well how the **** do you expect men to sympathize with your ideals? They're either the enemy or not real men. So might as well just stick with the easier one that doesn't cause friction with the people in your social circles.

Just because a guy has testosterone doesn't mean he's an MRA.

I watched a little bit of the video, and might finish it in a bit, but I just wanted to say that it sounds like I agree with it. Obviously there are societal influences on masculinity (and femininity) that are negative, but I think certain segments of people criticizing masculinity, men, the patriarchy, or whatever, are also demonizing masculinity as a whole whether they realize it or not. That I do not agree with.

I'm totally open to change in the concept of masculinity, but not a one-sided castigation of the entire concept that strips it of anything meaningful to men (and women too).

And as someone who read Fight Club as a mid-twenty-something, I seem to have interpreted it the same as the video. I don't know just how deep Chuck Palahniuk's philosophy was when he wrote it, but it's definitely first and foremost an expression of frustration with being a male in the 21st century that doesn't really try to tell you how you "should" act, so much as just expressing that frustration. Though I suspect it's even more about the author being gay and how that plays into his role as a male in society.

I wonder what all the cretins who watch the movie for the fight scenes would think if they knew the author was gay lol?

So feminine traits such as being demure, being supportive, and being subservient to men are positive? I mean the first two can be positive, but they most certainly can be negative. That "chest thumping" masculine aggression can obviously be negative as well when taken to the same extreme that leads women to letting their husband make every decision in the household, but in moderation it's also called motivation.

Everybody imposes their beliefs on everybody else. You have to expect that. Talk all this **** about how everybody needs to feel accepted and nobody should be judged for their beliefs but we all know we're going to give somebody **** if they like Nickleback.