Why does there seem to be a stigma attached to advocate for Men's Rights?

Paedantic Basterd · 08-16-2017, 06:28 PM

You don't get to pick between "middle class and black" and "white and poor", though. Odds are overwhelmingly that if you're black, you're also poor. That's the way history and sociopolitical institutions have stacked the deck.

Lucem Ferre · 08-18-2017, 12:00 AM

Our ****ty us vs them political environment seems hopeless right now. But we have gone through some extremely radical social changes with in the last 100 years. So **** will probably get better unless Trump destroys us all.

DwnWthVwls · 08-18-2017, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

It actually is though, it's more than just income that makes people of a different skin color have a different experience in life.

Good luck picking being a suburban middle class black kid, you will constantly have to experience being prejudiced against on many levels. You get into a good school and people will only assume that you were there because of your skin color and not your own merit. You will get pulled up significantly more because of your skin color. Assumptions will be made about you and people will view you as a threat just because of your skin color.

The phrase "boiling everything down to race" is similar to those that always complain about "why others are race baiting" or feel like we live in a post racial world just because Obama was president. It doesn't work that way. Prejudice in the general population seeps into every aspect of life from education, to the prison system, to the work force etc.

I would take the poor white trailer park kid and not have to worry about simple **** like playing Pokemon Go in certain areas and having people be suspicious of you for it. Getting the benefit of the doubt of being non threatening is a great thing and I have no idea why you would want to give that up.

None of this post supports your claim about inherent differences. Having a different experience in life has absolutely nothing to do with the inherent characteristics of race and everything to do with social structure. There are no inherent differences between races that set them up for harder lives, their hardships arise from systematic oppression and culture. I'm pretty sure you'd agree with this, but your argument is more representative of being an oppressed minority in X society and not so appropriate for arguing inherent racial differences.

Inherent differences could be shown if, given an unbiased equal society, black people somehow still had more difficult lives than other races.

djchameleon · 08-18-2017, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

None of this post supports your claim about inherent differences. Having a different experience in life has absolutely nothing to do with the inherent characteristics of race and everything to do with social structure. There are no inherent differences between races that set them up for harder lives, their hardships arise from systematic oppression and culture. I'm pretty sure you'd agree with this, but your argument is more representative of being an oppressed minority in X society and not so appropriate for arguing inherent racial differences.

Inherent differences could be shown if, given an unbiased equal society, black people somehow still had more difficult lives than other races.

We aren't talking about a hypothetical uptopia. We are talking within the confines of this current society.

**Frownland** · 08-18-2017, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

But these points

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I don't care what your points are

.

DwnWthVwls · 08-18-2017, 02:44 PM

^Pretty much. Ill give it one more try though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

We aren't talking about a hypothetical uptopia. We are talking within the confines of this current society.

Yes i understand that and my point is the things you describe are an inherent quality of american society NOT black people, but if you wanna give ammo to all the white supremicists arguing that blacks are inferior than by all means keep ignoring my point. The framing of your argument is counter productive.

Paedantic Basterd · 08-18-2017, 02:54 PM

I went back and read both your posts and I think you're both making more or less the same point. I can't see where Deej ever said that black people are genetically predisposed to racism or whatever it is you're trying to argue against here.

He has said a number of times that you can't take class or income out of the equation, but that also means you can't isolate class or income as factors affecting discrimination/prejudice/poverty over and above race. They're all tied together in a way that can't be parsed apart, 'cuz history.

Wpnfire · 08-18-2017, 03:24 PM

I think all that's happened is that DJ misread a post made by Qwertyy a couple pages ago saying that life isn't inherently more difficult because of your skin colour. That's what Dwn is trying to point out.

Wpnfire · 08-18-2017, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Pretty sure qwert was not referring to a hypothetical society but the one we live in Idk how you would derive otherwise from his posts

Only way you reach that conclusion is if you don't know what "inherently" means.

djchameleon · 08-18-2017, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Yes i understand that and my point is the things you describe are an inherent quality of american society NOT black people, but if you wanna give ammo to all the white supremicists arguing that blacks are inferior than by all means keep ignoring my point. The framing of your argument is counter productive.

I think I found the mix-up.

You thought my point was that I was talking about race in general and how certain races are genetically inferior just based off of being born into a certain race but that's not what I was talking about.

I'm talking about about being a certain race within our current society and the systemic issues that are in place.

08-18-2017, 03:24 PM	#1198 (permalink)
Wpnfire Dragon Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kansas, United States Posts: 2,744	I think all that's happened is that DJ misread a post made by Qwertyy a couple pages ago saying that life isn't inherently more difficult because of your skin colour. That's what Dwn is trying to point out. __________________ Last.FM My RYM Ratings *My Glitchwave Beta Profile*

08-16-2017, 06:28 PM	#1191 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	You don't get to pick between "middle class and black" and "white and poor", though. Odds are overwhelmingly that if you're black, you're also poor. That's the way history and sociopolitical institutions have stacked the deck.

08-18-2017, 02:54 PM	#1197 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I went back and read both your posts and I think you're both making more or less the same point. I can't see where Deej ever said that black people are genetically predisposed to racism or whatever it is you're trying to argue against here. He has said a number of times that you can't take class or income out of the equation, but that also means you can't isolate class or income as factors affecting discrimination/prejudice/poverty over and above race. They're all tied together in a way that can't be parsed apart, 'cuz history.