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View Poll Results: Rate it out of 5
5 3 12.50%
4 4 16.67%
3 2 8.33%
2 6 25.00%
1 9 37.50%
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:12 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre View Post
No, like I said, with something as subjective as art appreciation, I think the masses control the objective view on it. Science is not subjective.
And music is subjective, so why are we trying to approach it objectively

But if we were to approach music objectively, it would make more sense to establish the guidelines for whatever you think that artist is great. Establish a premise.

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Popularity has never been consistently awarded to an artist for a silly reason.


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There is always a reason with merit behind why an artist has retained popularity. I think artists have created the illusion of popularity, which isn't really popularity. It's like Nickelback. Now they are a huge band, they have tons of fans, they are mainstream, they seem to be popular, but the popular opinion is actually that they are terrible. 9/10 people will say they are trash. Or award shows. They tend to make artists look more popular than they actually are.
This is what I was referring to when I said going beyond popularity. Nickelback is popular in that they have album sales, but the consensus (which we established is different from popularity) is that they're watered down ****.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:15 PM   #132 (permalink)
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If something is very popular it's almost nailed on to be crap imo.

Some exceptions, not many.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:18 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
And music is subjective, so why are we trying to approach it objectively







This is what I was referring to when I said going beyond popularity. Nickelback is popular in that they have album sales, but the consensus (which we established is different from popularity) is that they're watered down ****.
Because you made it objective when saying that popularity shouldn't have much merit because people CAN be musical morons.

And no, we did not establish that. I said, "Isn't popularity the consensus of the people?" And I think you ignored that question. It is by the way. It is the consensus of the majority, that is the definition of popularity. So album sales don't make you popular. You ever been duped into buying a terrible album before? I know a few Eminem fans have been now.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:22 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre View Post
Because you made it objective when saying that popularity shouldn't have much merit because people CAN be musical morons.

And no, we did not establish that. I said, "Isn't popularity the consensus of the people?" And I think you ignored that question. It is by the way. It is the consensus of the majority, that is the definition of popularity. So album sales don't make you popular. You ever been duped into buying a terrible album before? I know a few Eminem fans have been now.
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Are we using consensus and popularity interchangeably now?
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The general consensus or opinion on something would be it's popularity, is it not?
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I would say popularity is the number of people who listen to them and/or have a positive opinion of them. Fans appreciate music quite differently, so that opens the door to disagreement on what makes the artist great, which would be stepping away from objectivity.
Consensus is agreement on specific elements of an artist. Popularity is much more dynamic. ****.

Again: Are you even reading my posts or are you just trying to man a sinking ship?
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:29 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Consensus is agreement on specific elements of an artist. Popularity is much more dynamic. ****.

Again: Are you even reading my posts or are you just trying to man a sinking ship?
So you literally said the same thing (that popularity is the general opinion of the public) and now you're inventing a new defintion for consensus to fit your rhetoric that you never mentioned? No, it's not more specific. You can have the consensus of somebody's music being good which makes it popular. That's what it is.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:32 PM   #136 (permalink)
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So you literally said the same thing (that popularity is the general opinion of the public) and now you're inventing a new defintion for consensus to fit your rhetoric that you never mentioned? No, it's not more specific. You can have the consensus of somebody's music being good which makes it popular. That's what it is.
And you can also have an artist that is popular that a lot of people think is ****. This is not a very complex thing. Stop hanging out with juggalos.

If you want to fellate yourself about having an objective discussion but dismiss every premise without comment or justification, then you don't really want to have an objective discussion because you're avoiding one for arbitrary reasons.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:39 PM   #137 (permalink)
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And you can also have an artist that is popular that a lot of people think is ****. This is not a very complex thing. Stop hanging out with juggalos.
No, if the general consensus is that they are ****, then it's not popular. What do juggalos have to do with anything?
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:41 PM   #138 (permalink)
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No, if the general consensus is that they are ****, then it's not popular. What do juggalos have to do with anything?
We're clearly working with different terminology. Check out my 20ish posts in this thread and hmu when you don't want to pony up on a idiotic stance.
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:41 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
And you can also have an artist that is popular that a lot of people think is ****. This is not a very complex thing. Stop hanging out with juggalos.

If you want to fellate yourself about having an objective discussion but dismiss every premise without comment or justification, then you don't really want to have an objective discussion because you're avoiding one for arbitrary reasons.
Yeah, sure, because using logic isn't justified but redefining words to fit your rhetoric is. After YOU tried to make it objective after dismissing a whole crowd of people's opinions for not living up to your standard of music appreciation. LOL the irony in you.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 12-24-2017, 09:41 PM   #140 (permalink)
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What a debate
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