He used to spit but I think he's just kinda there production-wise. Haven't listened to his latest.

No, like I said, with something as subjective as art appreciation, I think the masses control the objective view on it. Science is not subjective.

Popularity has never been consistently awarded to an artist for a silly reason. There is always a reason with merit behind why an artist has retained popularity. I think artists have created the illusion of popularity, which isn't really popularity. It's like Nickelback. Now they are a huge band, they have tons of fans, they are mainstream, they seem to be popular, but the popular opinion is actually that they are terrible. 9/10 people will say they are trash. Or award shows. They tend to make artists look more popular than they actually are.

It's important for me to get my point across.

And music is subjective, so why are we trying to approach it objectively :bonkhead:

But if we were to approach music objectively, it would make more sense to establish the guidelines for whatever you think that artist is great. Establish a premise.

http://images.gibson.com/Lifestyle/2...uction_600.jpg

This is what I was referring to when I said going beyond popularity. Nickelback is popular in that they have album sales, but the consensus (which we established is different from popularity) is that they're watered down ****.

If something is very popular it's almost nailed on to be crap imo.

Some exceptions, not many.

Because you made it objective when saying that popularity shouldn't have much merit because people CAN be musical morons.

And no, we did not establish that. I said, "Isn't popularity the consensus of the people?" And I think you ignored that question. It is by the way. It is the consensus of the majority, that is the definition of popularity. So album sales don't make you popular. You ever been duped into buying a terrible album before? I know a few Eminem fans have been now.

Consensus is agreement on specific elements of an artist. Popularity is much more dynamic. ****.

Again: Are you even reading my posts or are you just trying to man a sinking ship?

So you literally said the same thing (that popularity is the general opinion of the public) and now you're inventing a new defintion for consensus to fit your rhetoric that you never mentioned? No, it's not more specific. You can have the consensus of somebody's music being good which makes it popular. That's what it is.

And you can also have an artist that is popular that a lot of people think is ****. This is not a very complex thing. Stop hanging out with juggalos.

If you want to fellate yourself about having an objective discussion but dismiss every premise without comment or justification, then you don't really want to have an objective discussion because you're avoiding one for arbitrary reasons.

No, if the general consensus is that they are ****, then it's not popular. What do juggalos have to do with anything?

We're clearly working with different terminology. Check out my 20ish posts in this thread and hmu when you don't want to pony up on a idiotic stance.

Yeah, sure, because using logic isn't justified but redefining words to fit your rhetoric is. After YOU tried to make it objective after dismissing a whole crowd of people's opinions for not living up to your standard of music appreciation. LOL the irony in you.

What a debate :cool:

Clearly you are, you just need to pull out a dictionary. The internet, man, I used it just to make sure I'm not full of ****. Stretching definitions to fit your rhetoric LOL:rofl:

Edit" LOL "You're a big idiot saying stupid **** who just automatically dismisses my points with no real points you moron! Maybe if you stopped hanging out with juggalos you'd say something worth a ****!"

And I bet he fails to see the irony of it. While redefining words.

So do you not agree that finding a similar premise to debate with agreed upon terminology is a starting point for an "objective" discussion about music (which makes as much sense as a subjective discussion about science)? It would at least make some parties look a bit less :bonkhead:

Honestly only taking up the accusatory reigns because you brought them into the game first with the whole "oh you just hate on popularity because you don't agree with it" argument.

You are being a genuine idiot right now and you can occasionally be a smart guy. You mentioned hanging out with juggalos. I assumed that it was the juggalos. If not, idk get more sleep or something?

We didn't agree on that terminology as you presented it, the dictionary didn't agree with the terminology as you presented it, and objectively the terminology follows the dictionary definition. Going by that, popularity is the consensus of how good the music is. Music that has a consensus of being **** isn't popular even though it seems to be. It's like, you just wanted to change the definition of consensus just so you wouldn't be wrong.

And if you think talking objectively about music is senseless than why did you continue the objectivity of the discussion with what you said?

Twenty mile long laundry list of counterexamples.

GTFO with that garbage logic.

Well I know that YOU don't personally think that music is terrible just for being popular, I'm wrong for implying that, but I still take issue with the statement you made. You made a comment to invalidate certain people's opinions because you think they don't live up to your standards of music appreciation, just like you are trying to invalidate the intelligence of juggalos now. It's you continuing the attempt Maajo made at making music objective.

You've told me it's wrong but never told me how it's wrong. I can tell you how it's right.

Popular definitions.

1 : of or relating to the general public
2 : suitable to the majority: such as
a : adapted to or indicative of the understanding and taste of the majority a popular history of the war
b : suited to the means of the majority : inexpensive sold at popular prices
3 : frequently encountered or widely accepted a popular theory
4 : commonly liked or approved a very popular girl

Consensus defintions.

1 a : general agreement : unanimity
the consensus of their opinion, based on reports … from the border —John Hersey
b : the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned the consensus was to go ahead
2 : group solidarity in sentiment and belief

Now explain how something that is Popular is not something with the general agreement of being good.

If those people's opinions are valid, then they can demonstrate that in other ways than by pointing to its popularity.

Also I'm not trying to "invalidate" juggalos, I just don't like them.

These are basically the definitions that I've been using and they're two extremely different things. I can elaborate if you need me to.

I can agree with that, that's why I said it's not the sole reason for validation, but it's more important than you seem to give it credit for, and you did try to invalidate it by saying that something popular can have fans that don't live up to your standard of music appreciation.

I can understand that, juggalos, the culture as a whole, is stupid and ****ing annoying, but I never treat individuals as the collective on something superficial. I mean, I crack jokes all the time, but I can say that there are juggalos that aren't stupid or annoying or what ever else you dislike about them.

Bolded: It's more of a reason for me to not give much credit to popularity. "Invalidate" is an OTT characterization of my very right point that's better than yours. And I'm better than most people. Most people are dumb as ****. i think we can agree on that.

Nah **** em

And you don't think that's cherry picking compared to these two?

frequently encountered or widely accepted

the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned

Yeah, but that's assuming you need a level of intelligence to appreciate art. You don't. And it's not how you put it, you said it in a much more objective way.

Popularity is just popularity, consensus is consensus on x. If you're going to make an *masturbates* "objective" argument on music, then use the consensuses on whatever you think is good about the music.

Seriously the dumbest argument I've ever had on MB and I once had a ten page long argument about socks.

What? Nigga learn to infer. I'm just better.

That's not anything.

Popularity is the consensus on how good something is. If something has the consensus on being good, then the popular opinion is that it's good. Music is not popular with out the consensus of it being good. There is music that seems popular, Nickelback, but is not widely accepted or have the consensus of being good. It's the illusion of being popular.

Aaaaaaaaaand that's not consistent enough to be used as a gauge for quality......

It is when it's been a consistent opinion, like with Eminem. Unless you can give a reason why not with out dismissing a group of people because you don't think they are as good at appreciating music as you.

You mean a consensus? and what about

https://media2.giphy.com/media/W79qoke9OhETm/giphy.gif

And that doesn't mean they are popular when the general opinion is that they are ****. There are so many other factors that go with album sales, and I already said album sales don't make you popular, keep up.

The consensus isn't always consistent. I don't know why you keep redefining the word, can't you take an L gracefully? God, I admit when I'm full of ****, nothing wrong with being wrong every once in a while.

Top streamed track on last.fm today: https://www.last.fm/music/Mariah+Car...ristmas+Is+You

The ****? Just leave.

And what's your point?

Garbage song with a lot of plays and implied enjoyment of that is longstanding and still grade A garbagio.

Hey, remember when the consensus was that the earth was flat? And now it's that it's round? Hmmm, sounds like inconsistency, doesn't it?

I don't.