Eminem - Revival

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

And I never said that an artists popularity is the end all be all approach to discussing music objectively, just that it is much more important to the discussion than you want to acknowledge because it contradicts your taste. First post I literally said that.

In light of superior ways to determine objectivity, why rely on something so inconsistent though? You can use it to justify your opinion as more than some dude that's realy into x artist if you can show other people sharing your specific thoughts on the artist. Cause for popularity is incredibly ambiguous, so you have to go far beyond something's popularity to confirm that the popularity is because of the artist's high quality music.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by Frownland

In light of superior ways to determine objectivity, why rely on something so inconsistent though? You can use it to justify your opinion as more than some dude that's realy into x artist if you can show other people sharing your specific thoughts on the artist. Cause for popularity is incredibly ambiguous, so you have to go far beyond something's popularity to confirm that the popularity is because of the artist's high quality music.

And again, for the third time, it's not the end all be all thing that ultimately validates an artist, but it is more important to the discussion than you want to accept because it contradicts your taste.

Plus, I can bring up Kanye West. I can tell you all day that Kanye does not have terrible lyrics that his lyrics are exactly perfect for what he's doing and you aren't having it, so at that point what is the use of discussing it with somebody who doesn't know how to appreciate music they don't enjoy? You're not going to accept the objectivity of any reason I give for enjoying an artist like Kanye so it's just as pointless and futile as bringing up the popularity. And I can obviously just bring up that the lyrics can't be that terrible if so many people, not just casual fans but huge lovers of hip hop in general rally behind Kanye and his lyrics. It's the validation you don't want to accept because it contradicts your taste. No matter how detailed I get into why Kanye's lyrics aren't terrible you're not going to accept it any more than if I just leaned on his popularity.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

And again, for the third time, it's not the end all be all thing that ultimately validates an artist, but it is more important to the discussion than you want to accept because it contradicts your taste.

On a scale of one to ten, how important is popularity when determining the quality of the artist in the grand scheme of things? I say 1 because it's too inconsistent of a trait.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by Frownland

On a scale of one to ten, how important is popularity when determining the quality of the artist? I say 1

I don't know. I think it varies.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I don't know. I think it varies.

So...popularity is too inconsistent to be a good way to determine an artist's quality even as part of a whole? Kinda sounds like what I've been saying this whole time.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by Frownland

So...popularity is too inconsistent to be a good way to determine an artist's quality even as part of a whole? Kinda sounds like what I've been saying this whole time.

Popularity is too inconsistent to use as the main point of validation, but not as meaningless as you try to make it out to be. There are other factors that add into popularity like how consistently popular the artist was. The popularity of Lil Uzi Vert hasn't stood the test of time the same way a Kanye has so it could be completely reactionary. Or you could say that Lil Wayne's newest music is of quality because he's popular when he's really riding off the popularity of his past and the general consensus is that he was of quality and his newer stuff is trash. My Kanye example was perfect. You aren't going to accept the idea that Kanye is a good lyricist so I can bring up the general consensus of his lyrics to validate it. And there are artists that create the illusion of popularity when the consensus is that they are trash. So, as I've said this whole time, popularity is not the deciding factor on the quality of music, but it is more important of a piece of evidence than you want to credit it for because it contradicts your taste.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Popularity is too inconsistent to use as the main point of validation, but not as meaningless as you try to make it out to be. There are other factors that add into popularity like how consistently popular the artist was. The popularity of Lil Uzi Vert hasn't stood the test of time the same way a Kanye has so it could be completely reactionary. Or you could say that Lil Wayne's newest music is of quality because he's popular when he's really riding off the popularity of his past and the general consensus is that he was of quality and his newer stuff is trash. My Kanye example was perfect. You aren't going to accept the idea that Kanye is a good lyricist so I can bring up the general consensus of his lyrics to validate it. And there are artists that create the illusion of popularity when the consensus is that they are trash. So, as I've said this whole time, popularity is not the deciding factor on the quality of music, but it is more important of a piece of evidence than you want to credit it for because it contradicts your taste.

Are we using consensus and popularity interchangeably now?

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by Frownland

Are we using consensus and popularity interchangeably now?

The general consensus or opinion on something would be it's popularity, is it not?

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

The general consensus or opinion on something would be it's popularity, is it not?

I would say popularity is the number of people who listen to them and/or have a positive opinion of them. Fans appreciate music quite differently, so that opens the door to disagreement on what makes the artist great, which would be stepping away from objectivity.

[Mindfulness]

This album was better than Relaspe but worst than MMLP2, to me. Have to change the vote to a 3 :/