I'm not familiar with those bands other than thier name, but I'm willing to bet they are more rock than they are pop.

No I don't, that's because porn grove is not pop or rap.

I'm talking about the genre in general anyway.

Good, stick to the metal subforum then...;)

No Ray Davies is

I take it you've reached this conclusion by listening to loads of it?

No?

You don't really know many bands do you so by that you should'nt be starting up heavy debate if you have'nt got the musical knowledge to back it up.

I was raised on bands like the Beatles, my dad being an enormous fan of thiers. Between my 14 year old sister and 9 year old brother, and just the general influence of pop anyway, I've heard plenty.

It is also an "obsessively neutral" statement that clearly went over your head. You did not understand the intent behind the statement. What it means is that the term "pop" cannot be defined according to some stylistic criteria, and that is in one sense true: the main idea behind "pop" is that it's some format that receives mainstream attention. In other words, it's blind to genre: it could be r&b, hiphop, rock, electronic/dance, punk or whatever - just so long as it is commercially successful.

That's in one sense. In another sense, pop can be stylistically defined inasmuch as it refers to music that gravitates towards attractive melodies/hooks, and fun/catchy instrumental and vocal arrangements.

Ok we'll see.

What is that said format? And bear in mind it apperently cannot be a stylistic criteria.

Also, didn't I say that pop was commercial 'garbage' or something? Yeah, pop music is when you nueter a song of it's emotions, meaning and assertiveness for the purpose of making money, so that it can be put in commercials and in the background in movies and so that people will download it as thier ring tone, so little kids will want to cover it, so that it can be played as American Idol contestants are elimanated...to sell.

Would you consider rap pop music? I'm getting allot of polarized definitions of pop, whichever one seems more convenient to the person defending it anyway. I criticize the commercial aspect of it and suddenly 'pop' music is a sound/style, I criticize it as a sound and suddenly it has no definitive sound and it's blind to genre.

Ok so now it is a style. So how did it go over my head? I have no idea.

Uh huh tell that to the Cure.

I think that music that lacks emotionally honesty (to whatever degree) is deemed to be pop music in it's most basic form. If music is released with the sole purpose of making money and not honouring any artistic intentions, then a music fan can see through that straight away. I hate the term pop and use chart music as a better term.

Do you really know the best thing to do with all the music that bothers you?...Don't bother about it. I don't. I know what is bad and what is'nt. My criteria may not always be correct but it keeps my view of things easier.

The Cure?? That alternative new-wave goth band? Weren't they basically the first 'emo' band :p:

Would you seriously say they represent pop music?