Lady Gaga

ImmortalDiotima · 09-14-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

Yeah but getting snotty and being rude in an argument doesn't really help your case.

If you can show me an example where I've been snotty and rude (most likely an example from my very first post which I apologized for) I can show you 10 more examples where I have been perfectly respectful whilst maintaining my opinion against an onslaught of people trying to tell me that my opinion is wrong. I have maintained respect of the opinions of others while many have attacked me simply because my opinion of their beloved gaga is negative. Do not accuse me of rudeness. I have been quite polite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

Somebody made a really good point about Gaga.
That she doesn't need people to like her, she just wants people to talk about her.
Which is what everyone is doing.
What do you guys think about this?

I'm pretty sure the quote you're talking about was actually about me. She was saying that even if people don't agree with me, at least I'm moving the conversation along...
IF you're quoting the quote I think you're quoting

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

This isn't a comment against you, Consolator; I'm just musing out loud about the topic of Lady Gaga seeming cold to some people:

I wonder if people sometimes expect a female performer to be more vulnerable than a male performer, and hold it against her if she *doesn't* seem vulnerable. I've never heard anyone say of a male performer, "Oh, he doesn't tear up! He must not be in touch with his emotions. He is cold," and disliking him for that.

Yes, I agree with what you say, マイケル : Lady Gaga's ostentatious emphasis on *things* (clothing, etc.) rather than mainly on the music alone may make us face something we don't like about our culture: its shallow consumerism.

That being said, one of my favorite songs and videos was always Madonna's Material Girl, and I didn't mind its shallow consumerism message at all, though I assume the song was meant to be ironic rather than an endorsement of materialism. I wonder to what extent Lady Gaga's outfits and personas are intended in the same way. Or maybe she is just having fun thinking up and appreciating new and odd things!

I agree, AwwSugar: I think she doesn't need people to like her. I don't think she is concerned so much if she appears sexy, for example. I feel a lot of her clothing isn't intended to be sexual so much as provocative and startling. I assume she *does* want people to like her music, though.

And I think of course she wants people to talk about her; this increases interest in her music, her shows.

This is EXACTLY what I've been talking about. The main revulsion is the revulsion with how materialistic our society is. The reason I say I don't like Gaga is that she has found herself in a position of the utmost power and chooses, instead of challenging materialism, to PERPETUATE it to the utmost degree. So yes, my initial complaint is with the society itself. But if you have millions of screaming, insecure teenagers ready to wear a lady gaga mask every day for the rest of their lives (or at least until something "cooler" comes along) you should (if you want to be in my good book, which you don't have to be, lady gaga) take responsibility and send the right message to these people that clothes have nothing to do with who you are. You should make good music and inspire others to express themselves through music (or other art forms) instead of using catchy music as a catalyst to promote your image.

And I agree with many points of that article you posted Goblintears... except i don't know why he/she feels the need to attack the way Gaga looks, or her body. That's unnecessary.

Arya Stark · 09-14-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

I agree, AwwSugar: I think she doesn't need people to like her. I don't think she is concerned so much if she appears sexy, for example. I feel a lot of her clothing isn't intended to be sexual so much as provocative and startling. I assume she *does* want people to like her music, though.

And I think of course she wants people to talk about her; this increases interest in her music, her shows.

I'm not sure if she needs people to like her music, either. I think she likes what she's doing and that's what matters. You know?
If no one liked it and she wasn't doing big concerts on stage, I'm sure she'd still be playing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortalDiotima

I'm pretty sure the quote you're talking about was actually about me. She was saying that even if people don't agree with me, at least I'm moving the conversation along...
IF you're quoting the quote I think you're quoting

Multi quote your posts instead of quoting each one separately.
And no, I wasn't talking about you.

ImmortalDiotima · 09-14-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by マイケル

Say what you will, she certainly has everybody talking. And that's kind of her point, isn't it?

This is the quote i was referring to. granted... it is probably about gaga, but within the context where it was placed, could easily have been interpreted to mean me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

I'm not sure if she needs people to like her music, either. I think she likes what she's doing and that's what matters. You know?
If no one liked it and she wasn't doing big concerts on stage, I'm sure she'd still be playing.

Multi quote your posts instead of quoting each one separately.
And no, I wasn't talking about you.

To say that you weren't talking about me doesn't make sense, since the quote I was talking about wasn't posted by you... the person who posted it would have to let us know who she was talking about. But looking back on it... probably gaga.

And thank you, someone showed me how to use the multi-quote recently.

As far as the comment about gaga not needing people to like her music, i think that's true. But the point that was being made wasn't that she wouldn't care if no one listened to her. the point that was being made was that it doesn't matter if they like her or not, as long as she has their attention. I highly doubt that gaga doesn't care about having peoples attention.

Goblin Tears · 09-14-2010, 04:25 PM

Am I the only one that noticed GaGa rudely asking Cher to hold her meat purse while she accepted an award? Was that an attempt to express her dominance over the legendary Cherilyn Sarkisian?

VEGANGELICA · 09-14-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

I'm not sure if she needs people to like her music, either. I think she likes what she's doing and that's what matters. You know?
If no one liked it and she wasn't doing big concerts on stage, I'm sure she'd still be playing.

I agree she'd still be playing if she weren't doing big concerts, Amandria. I think most musicians would play even if no one but themselves hears. At least, that's my modus operandi!

(Just so you know, I had to look up modus operandi. I don't usually go around saying "modus operandi.")

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goblin Tears

Am I the only one that noticed GaGa rudely asking Cher to hold her meat purse while she accepted an award? Was that an attempt to express her dominance over the legendary Cherilyn Sarkisian?

Uh oh...a MEAT purse!

And GaGa potentially dissing Cher?!?

Tell me more, oh purveyor of juicy GaGa gossip!

FETCHER. · 09-14-2010, 05:16 PM

Vege, your last paragraph made me lol. I imagine you having kittens right now at the thought of a meat purse

マイケル · 09-14-2010, 11:19 PM

I did mean to say it about Lady GaGa, ImmortalDiotima, to sort of put a coda on that part of the discussion. Then I read the replies and realized it could have been taken either way... and the discussion seemed to be interesting so I didn't bother to correct it.

I didn't know you were female at the time. BTW, I'm male.

As a sort of interesting aside, I never really thought much of Madonna's song "Material Girl". It always struck me as a rather witless reiteration of Marilyn Monroe's "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend".

nylonsmile · 09-15-2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortalDiotima

This is EXACTLY what I've been talking about. The main revulsion is the revulsion with how materialistic our society is. The reason I say I don't like Gaga is that she has found herself in a position of the utmost power and chooses, instead of challenging materialism, to PERPETUATE it to the utmost degree. So yes, my initial complaint is with the society itself. But if you have millions of screaming, insecure teenagers ready to wear a lady gaga mask every day for the rest of their lives (or at least until something "cooler" comes along) you should (if you want to be in my good book, which you don't have to be, lady gaga) take responsibility and send the right message to these people that clothes have nothing to do with who you are. You should make good music and inspire others to express themselves through music (or other art forms) instead of using catchy music as a catalyst to promote your image.

.......Lady Gaga is hardly concerned with whether people go out and buy the fancy car or clothes she mentions in her songs. If anything, a central theme in the Fame was clearly celebrity for all. She's even discussed it herself in interviews. She wanted someone to be able to listen to her songs and feel like a sort of celebrity. To blame her for 'perpetuating materialism to its utmost degree' is so dramatic and misses the point. She's hardly more responsible than many other mainstream celebrities who endorse products out the ying-yang.

VEGANGELICA · 09-15-2010, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayleigh.

Vege, your last paragraph made me lol. I imagine you having kittens right now at the thought of a meat purse

Several!

They are very cute.

Anyhoo, here's the article about GaGa's meat purse, and it says she didn't mean disrespect to vegetarians or vegans by it (!), and:

Quote:

Lady Gaga explained later that the fleshy look -- which she repeats with a meat swimming suit on the October cover of Vogue Hommes in Japan -- 'has many interpretations.' She said, "If we don't stand up for what we believe in and if we don't fight for our rights, pretty soon we're going to have as much rights as the meat on our own bones. And I am not a piece of meat."

The most common theory is that her steak-powered statement referenced her support for gays in the US military and opposition to the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy on homosexuals in the ranks.AFP: Critics skewer Lady Gaga's meat dress.

So, in deference to Urban Hatemonger's earlier criticism of GaGa's artistic statements as being unclear, I must say that I would have to agree with him about this one: I had no clue that the meat outfit might be a statement for gay rights. So, Urban, you are right! And I was wrong.

Now, maybe if she'd dangled the penises and vaginas of slaughtered cows and steers all over her, the point would have been clearer (if gay rights *was* her point). That's what *I* would have done if I wanted to use meat to symbolize how people should not be discriminated against based on their genitalia. If I weren't vegan, of course. I suppose I could have still used genitalia donated from deceased fans... :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by マイケル

As a sort of interesting aside, I never really thought much of Madonna's song "Material Girl". It always struck me as a rather witless reiteration of Marilyn Monroe's "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend".

Sacrilege!!! No love for "Material Girl?!" I'd say it is a cut above "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend," which I think was not meant tongue-in-cheek. Since you don't like the song by GaGa's predecessor, you might like this cover of it: YouTube - Madonna - Material Girl (Exhumed cover)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nylonsmile

If anything, a central theme in the Fame was clearly celebrity for all. She's even discussed it herself in interviews. To blame her for 'perpetuating materialism to its utmost degree' is so dramatic and misses the point. She's hardly more responsible than many other mainstream celebrities who endorse products out the ying-yang.

Agreed! And does Lady Gaga actually endorse any products out the ying-yang?

FETCHER. · 09-15-2010, 07:01 AM

Yeah I heard Gaga on the radio (i think) saying she certainly isn't trying to get a dig in at vegans/vegetarians. The way her mind works is just... so different.

View Poll Results: Best Gaga Album...?!?!
The Fame	5	41.67%
The Fame Monster	3	25.00%
Born This Way	4	33.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

09-14-2010, 04:25 PM	#1644 (permalink)
Goblin Tears Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Ireland Posts: 337	Am I the only one that noticed GaGa rudely asking Cher to hold her meat purse while she accepted an award? Was that an attempt to express her dominance over the legendary Cherilyn Sarkisian?

09-14-2010, 11:19 PM	#1647 (permalink)
マイケル Groupie Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 'Sconsin, USA Posts: 29	I did mean to say it about Lady GaGa, ImmortalDiotima, to sort of put a coda on that part of the discussion. Then I read the replies and realized it could have been taken either way... and the discussion seemed to be interesting so I didn't bother to correct it. I didn't know you were female at the time. BTW, I'm male. As a sort of interesting aside, I never really thought much of Madonna's song "Material Girl". It always struck me as a rather witless reiteration of Marilyn Monroe's "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend".