The Beatles vs The Beach Boys

Surell · 07-12-2013, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirishan

I looked at your comparable songs, and while I agree with most of it, some I do disagree with, for favor with the Beatles usually. And while those are a few songs, there's far too many songs you're missing. You miss the incredible penmanship of George Harrison entirely. Also, the depth in the Beatles styles is far more respectable to that of the Beach Boys. Juts look at the White Album. BAck in the USSR is Beach Boys. Solid Ballad Dear Prudence, pop fun Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da. Bungalow Bill. While My Guitar Gently Weeeps. Happiness Si A Warm Gun. Piggies. I Will. Rocky Raccoon. Yer Blues. Helter Skelter. Good Night. The range is incredible. And every song is too. The Beatles oeuvre has more, great songs than the Beach Boys but the Beach Boys have MANY more songs. The Beatles never put out a bad album. Obviously, the Beach Boys had. But even in just looking late 60s, early 70s. From Help! to Let It Be, and from Today! to Surf's Up. Beatles were better. With The Beatles and A Hard Day's Night were both excellent albums as well. I mean come on guys. It's the BEATLES. The Beach were and always will be an amazing band. Even to some more favorable to listen to. Obviously it's an unfair matchup, but it was 3 geniuses versus 1, how could he possibly win?

On better songwriting expertise. Plus, much of Paul MacCartney's sound can be traced back to certain elements of Wilson's, and Mac was probably the strongest songwriter of the whole group.

Neapolitan · 07-12-2013, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topazchicken

The Beach Boys fill a niche very well. They crafted beautiful and pleasant summery songs that will never be forgotten, but they did not successfully stray far from their core competency, which is completely fine and respectable: do one thing with excellence. However, the Beatles effectively created and attacked an unbelievable spectrum of music (especially for their time). The Beach Boys are like the month of July, but the fab four are the whole calendar!

The Beach Boys was much more that just July imho. They went through phases themselves, going from the Surf in the beginning, taking much influence from Dick Dale to Psychedelia taking their cue what was happening at the time. The Beach Boys during the 60s was more like March... I think... coming in like a surfing lamb and going out psychedelic lion. During the 70s the Beach Boys was more like the gloomy rainy day in April. In the 80s when they released Kokomo the Beach Boys was like May that one perfect day you always find in May where it is not too hot or too cold just enjoyable cool weather.

Unknown Soldier · 07-12-2013, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

The Beach Boys was much more that just July imho. They went through phases themselves, going from the Surf in the beginning, taking much influence from Dick Dale to Psychedelia taking their cue what was happening at the time. The Beach Boys during the 60s was more like March... I think... coming in like a surfing lamb and going out psychedelic lion. During the 70s the Beach Boys was more like the gloomy rainy day in April. In the 80s when they released Kokomo the Beach Boys was like May that one perfect day you always find in May where it is not too hot or too cold just enjoyable cool weather.

Yes, but they're still a summer band.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 07-12-2013, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quzi

Rikki Fataar was a Beach Boy though, he was brought in when Dennis Wilson put his hand through a window pane in 1972 and severely damaged his hand to the point where he was unable to drum. Also, I believe on "Sail, On Sailor" the piano is played by Brian, the guitar Carl and Blondie (who was also a Beach Boy) did the bass and lead vocal.

At best, Fataar and Chaplin were session Beach Boys. I'm not buying that they were true members of the band. You never saw them in pictures of the band--not that I am aware of anyway. They were in the background making them essentially session men.

This is from Wiki concerning "Sail On Sailor":

Brian Wilson has said of the track:

“Van **** really inspired this one. We worked on it originally; then, the other collaborators contributed some different lyrics. By the time the Beach Boys recorded it, the lyrics were all over the place. But I love how this song rocks.[2]”

However, Parks has insisted that the song was not really worked on by Wilson, but rather that Wilson gave him a few chords with a small melody. Parks states that part of the reason it was so heavily stressed to be a mostly Wilson composition (indeed, Parks had to sue to gain any credits at all) is because Warner Brothers had demanded Wilson return to writing music and to the front of the band—something Wilson was not willing to do.[citation needed]

Parks later describes his contributions further:

“I came up with that lyric when I was working with Brian, as well as the musical pitches those words reside on. I did nothing with that tape until I saw The Beach Boys’ crisis at the company where I was working, earning $350 a week. Well, they recorded [“Sail on Sailor”], and it was a hit. And I’m glad that every one came out of their little rooms to claim co-writing credit on that song. But I never questioned it, just as I never questioned the various claims on the residuals. [...] On the tape, it’s clear from the contents that I authored the words and the musical intervals to “Sail on Sailor.” It’s also velar that I composed the bridge, played them, and taught them to Brian.[3]”

Vocals for "Sail On, Sailor" were recorded in late October 1972, some time after the Beach Boys had left Holland. However, Brian Wilson was not involved at all with the song's recording sessions, leaving the basic track to be recorded by Brian's brother Carl and ex-Flame and then-Beach Boys members Ricky Fataar and Blondie Chaplin. The lead vocal was first attempted by Dennis Wilson, who sang the vocal once before leaving to go surfing. Carl was the next to attempt a vocal, but he then suggested that Chaplin make an attempt. After two takes, Carl decided that Chaplin's vocal would feature as the lead.[3]

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 07-12-2013, 09:22 PM

I'm surprised all this talk about the Beach Boys and nobody mentioned the Four Freshmen unless I missed it somewhere. BB songs as "In My Room" and "Surfer Girl" definitely have the FF thing going on. The Four Freshmen formed as a barbershop quartet out Indianapolis in 1948 and underwent personnel changes several times before signing a recording contract under the auspices of Stan Kenton in 1950. They had their first hit single in 1952--"It's a Blue World." The group was Ross and Don Barbour, Bob Flanigan and Hal Kratzsch. In '53, Kratzsch was replaced by Ken Errair. The similarities to the Beach Boys are striking. Like BB, most the the original lineup were related (Ross and Don being brothers and Flanigan was a cousin) and they also played their own instruments.

four freshmen- it's a blue world - YouTube

Brian Wilson was greatly influenced by FF and sought to emulate their vocal styles which kept the group alive in people's minds enough that they could continue to tour. About two dozen members have been Freshmen over the years. This wasn't some label's attempt to keep capitalizing off the name. The original members chose replacements after retiring and trained them to sing in the FF fashion. Flanigan was the last original member to retire (1993) but continued to manage the band and owned the name. Today, all the original members are dead but the band survives and does 100 bookings a year. In fact, here is the latest incarnation of FF from 2010 performing live their own version of "Surfer Girl":

Surfer Girl - The Four Freshmen - YouTube

**Janszoon** · 07-12-2013, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Yes, but they're still a summer band.

They're not a summer band, they're a California band. One that very much helped shape the perception of their home state.

Quzi · 07-13-2013, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip

At best, Fataar and Chaplin were session Beach Boys. I'm not buying that they were true members of the band. You never saw them in pictures of the band--not that I am aware of anyway. They were in the background making them essentially session men.

This is from Wiki concerning "Sail On Sailor":

Brian Wilson has said of the track:

“Van **** really inspired this one. We worked on it originally; then, the other collaborators contributed some different lyrics. By the time the Beach Boys recorded it, the lyrics were all over the place. But I love how this song rocks.[2]”

However, Parks has insisted that the song was not really worked on by Wilson, but rather that Wilson gave him a few chords with a small melody. Parks states that part of the reason it was so heavily stressed to be a mostly Wilson composition (indeed, Parks had to sue to gain any credits at all) is because Warner Brothers had demanded Wilson return to writing music and to the front of the band—something Wilson was not willing to do.[citation needed]

Parks later describes his contributions further:

“I came up with that lyric when I was working with Brian, as well as the musical pitches those words reside on. I did nothing with that tape until I saw The Beach Boys’ crisis at the company where I was working, earning $350 a week. Well, they recorded [“Sail on Sailor”], and it was a hit. And I’m glad that every one came out of their little rooms to claim co-writing credit on that song. But I never questioned it, just as I never questioned the various claims on the residuals. [...] On the tape, it’s clear from the contents that I authored the words and the musical intervals to “Sail on Sailor.” It’s also velar that I composed the bridge, played them, and taught them to Brian.[3]”

Vocals for "Sail On, Sailor" were recorded in late October 1972, some time after the Beach Boys had left Holland. However, Brian Wilson was not involved at all with the song's recording sessions, leaving the basic track to be recorded by Brian's brother Carl and ex-Flame and then-Beach Boys members Ricky Fataar and Blondie Chaplin. The lead vocal was first attempted by Dennis Wilson, who sang the vocal once before leaving to go surfing. Carl was the next to attempt a vocal, but he then suggested that Chaplin make an attempt. After two takes, Carl decided that Chaplin's vocal would feature as the lead.[3]

They've definitely been written out of history a bit, but regardless, they were without a doubt seen as true Beach Boys around this period. Glen Cambell didn't get this kind of treatment:

Also, why have you bolded that Brian wasn't involved with the recording sessions? It goes on to note that Carl was the chief producer for that song, and if he isn't a real Beach Boy then I don't who is... besides, I think Brian's contributions have been downplayed. I've come across a few sources which do say Brian made some significant contributions to the production, albeit over the phone.

EDIT: Oh, if you're talking about Brian's piano contribution, I believe it was recorded when the song was originally demoed in 1970 or so. Moog and other overdubs were laid atop of Brian's basic track.

us3rname · 07-13-2013, 08:18 PM

Beach boys are the best. Well...both

Taxman · 10-13-2013, 12:23 AM

Hard to decide which band is better, but maybe Beatles are slightly better JUST BECAUSE Beatles' had two genius (John&Paul) plus one good songwriter (George) and Beach Boys' had only one genius (Brian), one good songwriter (Dennis) and several average songwriters.
But I love them both so this thread is pretty interest.

neardeathexperience · 10-21-2013, 06:25 AM

I thought I saw that Blondie fellow on stage with the Rolling Stones at one time also! I think both artists helped the Beach Boys Holland album, but in the bigger picture of the band's career they would appear as a footnote. Holland has to be one of their best albums ever with little help from Brian at that time. The California Saga song shows how when a collaborative effort takes place and each member brings a idea to the studio it can be magical..........

07-12-2013, 09:22 PM	#695 (permalink)
~~Lord Larehip~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 899	I'm surprised all this talk about the Beach Boys and nobody mentioned the Four Freshmen unless I missed it somewhere. BB songs as "In My Room" and "Surfer Girl" definitely have the FF thing going on. The Four Freshmen formed as a barbershop quartet out Indianapolis in 1948 and underwent personnel changes several times before signing a recording contract under the auspices of Stan Kenton in 1950. They had their first hit single in 1952--"It's a Blue World." The group was Ross and Don Barbour, Bob Flanigan and Hal Kratzsch. In '53, Kratzsch was replaced by Ken Errair. The similarities to the Beach Boys are striking. Like BB, most the the original lineup were related (Ross and Don being brothers and Flanigan was a cousin) and they also played their own instruments. four freshmen- it's a blue world - YouTube Brian Wilson was greatly influenced by FF and sought to emulate their vocal styles which kept the group alive in people's minds enough that they could continue to tour. About two dozen members have been Freshmen over the years. This wasn't some label's attempt to keep capitalizing off the name. The original members chose replacements after retiring and trained them to sing in the FF fashion. Flanigan was the last original member to retire (1993) but continued to manage the band and owned the name. Today, all the original members are dead but the band survives and does 100 bookings a year. In fact, here is the latest incarnation of FF from 2010 performing live their own version of "Surfer Girl": Surfer Girl - The Four Freshmen - YouTube

07-13-2013, 08:18 PM	#698 (permalink)
us3rname Groupie Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2	Beach boys are the best. Well...both

10-13-2013, 12:23 AM	#699 (permalink)
Taxman watching the wheels Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Finland Posts: 470	Hard to decide which band is better, but maybe Beatles are slightly better JUST BECAUSE Beatles' had two genius (John&Paul) plus one good songwriter (George) and Beach Boys' had only one genius (Brian), one good songwriter (Dennis) and several average songwriters. But I love them both so this thread is pretty interest.

10-21-2013, 06:25 AM	#700 (permalink)
neardeathexperience Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 531	I thought I saw that Blondie fellow on stage with the Rolling Stones at one time also! I think both artists helped the Beach Boys Holland album, but in the bigger picture of the band's career they would appear as a footnote. Holland has to be one of their best albums ever with little help from Brian at that time. The California Saga song shows how when a collaborative effort takes place and each member brings a idea to the studio it can be magical..........