I myself have lampooned pop artists where I see fit. Check the Katy Perry thread.

You have to admit, people here really are dismissive of pop, even though most of the criticism is unfounded. People see Justin Bieber in a magazine, assume he is a talentless, brainless lesbian, and further escalate their own elitism. If people bothered to watch his videos they would know he can dance and he can sing...two talents that are noteworthy within a pop-performer's context. It's more a case of him not fitting into the acoustic expectations of this forum. The fact that these talents combined with his youthful looks reap major commercial benefits shouldn't blind you from the fact that genuine talent does exist beneath the mass marketing veneer.

The same can't be said of Katy Perry. Truly the worst of the worst...



Laughably bad. BABBBBBBBBAYYYYYYYY YOURE A FAAAYYYREEEEE WUUUUUUUURRRRRKKKKK! :rofl:

Nobody who thinks sees Justin Bieber as talentless. They see him for what he is, somebody who's biggest asset is his producer and marketing staff. People are generally upset about pop stars because there are far more creative talents out there that are ignored, simply because the general public has a more passive interest in music then they do.

Point well taken, and I wouldn't dismiss the assets that Bieber or Gaga has, but I couldn't agree with Conan more.

Yes they do. Who here, besides myself, have remarked on his talents? Even you failed to concede to it.

If his biggest asset was production and marketing, would he have been such a huge deal on youtube before his record contract? Wouldn't that imply that any person could be a pop star? (because certainly it's not an easy job) Charisma and vocal execution are quintessential factors to be considered. Anyway, a lot of rock bands also enlist the aid of producers to help translate their sound into the studio in the way they want to, and alot of them also heavily rely on promotional assets such as the music video etc. to help them sell their albums. What's the difference between that and Bieber? Success? Hardly a fault.

Don;t get me wrong...I don't thing he deserves any artist of the year award, and he's hardly Bob Dylan when it comes to songwriting, but people here really do have a skewed vision of the mechanics of pop.

I disagree, I think people here generally shat upon Pop because it's full of dancers and singers, not songwriters and musicians. Yes, it takes some talent to perform, to dance and sing, and it takes a certain pretty face and a certain charisma. Obviously not everyone has these key components. But I think most MB-ians agree that it takes a far greater amount of talent and sincerity to write good music.

I don't think many Pop superstars care one bit about making music (the most egregious offender being Kesha), at least not in the same sense that most of the people on this forum want to discuss.

You are guaging different types of talents agains one another and blindly assuming one is superior to the other. Dance is an artform unto itself, as is vocal ability and song writing. Some specialise in one (Bob Dylan), some do a mix (Justin Bieber), and some even do it ALL splendidly (Kate Bush, Prince). It's pretty arrogant and dismissive to claim the talents you value as superior to others.

You would be surprised.

I still don't like the fact that he won...it should have been Lady Gaga...

I don't. I do not think that the value of talent is completely relative. I'm perfectly aware that dance is an art in and of itself (believe me, I'm taking a Dance History class this quarter :mad:), but I think it's perfectly legitimate to at least have a preference when it comes to different forms of art. Personally, (and I suspect this is the case for most of us not frequenting the pop subforum) I'd much rather listen to a unique piece of songwriting than watch a unique dance. And I think that's why I value one talent as "superior" to another.

I don't care about any awards. Not sure why anyone does... I actually don't hate Bieber. He's made great pop music over these past few years and surprisingly doesn't piss me off in interviews. I think he knows what he is doing with his career, I'm just interested to see what happens in a few years when he is in his 20s. It's hard to imagine his career path. I don't really view this as a crime against humanity as others, cause like i said, who really cares about these awards.

I don't think that any of these popstars are talentless, I just don't like them.