Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblin Tears
(Post 959644)
Yes they do. Who here, besides myself, have remarked on his talents? Even you failed to concede to it.
If his biggest asset was production and marketing, would he have been such a huge deal on youtube before his record contract? Wouldn't that imply that any person could be a pop star? (because certainly it's not an easy job) Charisma and vocal execution are quintessential factors to be considered. Anyway, a lot of rock bands also enlist the aid of producers to help translate their sound into the studio in the way they want to, and alot of them also heavily rely on promotional assets such as the music video etc. to help them sell their albums. What's the difference between that and Bieber? Success? Hardly a fault.
Don;t get me wrong...I don't thing he deserves any artist of the year award, and he's hardly Bob Dylan when it comes to songwriting, but people here really do have a skewed vision of the mechanics of pop.
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You misunderstood what I was saying, as you and I are essentially on the same page with this. I think Justin Bieber does have a good talent. And I think the whole YouTube sensation thing is just an obvious prologue to his success because that talent will be recognized, and a good looking young man with a good talent is his appeal.
What I am saying, is that his appeal
and his talent were recognized as being profitable. A lot of people forget that if he couldn't actually sing, he wouldn't be anywhere. It is essentially his talent as a singer that got him into the position he is in. However, you have to admit that there are certainly more talented singers out there, and that his marketing is a great big chunk of what got him so popular. Clever marketing works the same way with bands, too. If a group already has talent and a natural appeal, they are marketable and depending on how well the marketing team does, often depends on how successful they become. Everyone can admit that there are unheard of bands that probably have more talent than successful bands. But it all boils down to the general publics taste. If, for example, Bieber was an expert yodeler, we wouldn't know who he was. That's because yodeling isn't a popular form of music in this country. So no matter the
quality of the marketing, we still wouldn't know him. Since, however, his music is very appealing to the general public - as with all pop stars - he is very marketable. And I still think he's very talented, it's just that his production team are really the ones responsible for his success.
That being said, his music is so over-produced that it's almost impossible for people to tell if he really has vocal ability or not. This breeds a lot of hatred for him among younger males, especially those who are beginning to reject "mainstream pop trash" and listen to "real music" like Sick Puppies.
I don't think there are many on this forum who would flat out diss pop music in such a way, as it's generally seen as immature to do such. But many of them simply don't bother with it, because they figure 1. It's not their thing, or 2. it's not marketed toward them, so they won't enjoy it.
As for 1 - since the majority of people in the western world are, whether they realize it or not, pop music fans, the inclination to seek something else, something better is the biggest reason for this. Creativity, honesty, and sincerity are
always admired. This makes some people feel like pop music is "fake", which is naturally unappealing. It may not be accurate, since obviously there's a lot of effort and skill involved in making pop music, but it's still the stigma it gets because it generally lacks innovation or creativity - mostly due to pressures from the business men who run the industry. If it sells, sell it! Even if these often demonized "higher ups" do have a genuine love for music (and most of them do, they aren't soulless), it's still a business.
Others just prefer deeper music, and don't bother with pop because they're perfectively satisfied with what they have. And when you really get to thinking about it, people can discuss popular acts with almost anybody on the street. So why join a site like MusicBanter to begin with?
As for 2 - You won't find many people on this forum who listen to, say, a Disney Pop princess. Because that music is aimed at a specific target audience. You may find those who listen to Lady Gaga (who I think is actually a very talented and creative individual) because she is simply a Pop Star - with a general appeal.
Justin Bieber I think falls somewhere in between. Because of his age, many see him as a Disney figure like the infamous Jonas Brothers (who may be talented in their own right, but show about zero creativity and are generally just seen as pons of the Disney corporation. But other's see him as simply a young talent, who needs time to grow and mature artistically. Unlike a Disney sponsored star, he won't be thrown out like yesterday's newspaper the minute his album sales start to drop. He's getting more and more respect from other musicians who recognize his talent (heck, he did a verse opposite Raekwon in that Kanye West song) I'd personally like to see him do something really ambitious, but I think we'll have to wait on anything creative for a while. At the moment I'm sure his contracts wouldn't allow even a slight deviation from the formula.
Out of curiosity, do you know if he writes his own material?
