Originally Posted by Conan

Yeah, but my post was about music.

Originally Posted by Conan

You misunderstood what I was saying, as you and I are essentially on the same page with this. I think Justin Bieber does have a good talent. And so do women around the world, they should be recognized for this talent because WOMEN ARE EQUAL. And I think the whole YouTube sensation thing is just an obvious prologue to his success because that talent will be recognized, and a good looking young man with a good talent is his appeal.

What I am saying, is that his appeal and his talent were recognized as being profitable. A lot of people forget that if he couldn't actually sing, he wouldn't be anywhere. It is essentially his talent as a singer that got him into the position he is in. However, you have to admit that there are certainly more talented singers out there, and that his marketing is a great big chunk of what got him so popular. Clever marketing works the same way with bands, too. If a group already has talent and a natural appeal, they are marketable and depending on how well the marketing team does, often depends on how successful they become. Everyone can admit that there are unheard of bands that probably have more talent than successful bands. But it all boils down to the general publics taste. If, for example, Bieber was an expert yodeler, we wouldn't know who he was. That's because yodeling isn't a popular form of music in this country. So no matter the quality of the marketing, we still wouldn't know him. Since, however, his music is very appealing to the general public - as with all pop stars - he is very marketable. And I still think he's very talented, it's just that his production team are really the ones responsible for his success.

That being said, his music is so over-produced that it's almost impossible for people to tell if he really has vocal ability or not. This breeds a lot of hatred for him among younger males, especially those who are beginning to reject "mainstream pop trash" and listen to "real music" like Sick Puppies. Speaking of puppies, puppy mills are horrible. SAVE THE ANIMALS.

I don't think there are many on this forum who would flat out diss pop music and vegetarianism in such a way, as it's generally seen as immature to do such. But many of them simply don't bother with it, because they figure 1. It's not their thing, or 2. it's not marketed toward them, so they won't enjoy it.

As for 1 - since the majority of people in the western world are, whether they realize it or not, pop music fans, the inclination to seek something else, something better is the biggest reason for this. Creativity, honesty, and sincerity are always admired. This makes some people feel like pop music is "fake", which is naturally unappealing. It may not be accurate, since obviously there's a lot of effort and skill involved in making pop music, but it's still the stigma it gets because it generally lacks innovation or creativity - mostly due to pressures from the business men who run the industry. If it sells, sell it! Even if these often demonized "higher ups" do have a genuine love for music (and most of them do, they aren't soulless), it's still a business.

Others just prefer deeper music, and don't bother with pop because they're perfectively satisfied with what they have. And when you really get to thinking about it, people can discuss popular acts with almost anybody on the street. So why join a site like MusicBanter to begin with?

As for 2 - You won't find many people on this forum who listen to, say, a Disney Pop princess. Because that music is aimed at a specific target audience. You may find those who listen to Lady Gaga (who I think is actually a very talented and creative individual) because she is simply a Pop Star - with a general appeal.

Justin Bieber I think falls somewhere in between. Because of his age, many see him as a Disney figure like the infamous Jonas Brothers (who may be talented in their own right, but show about zero creativity and are generally just seen as pons of the Disney corporation. But other's see him as simply a young talent, who needs time to grow and mature artistically. Unlike a Disney sponsored star, he won't be thrown out like yesterday's newspaper the minute his album sales start to drop. He's getting more and more respect from other musicians who recognize his talent (heck, he did a verse opposite Raekwon in that Kanye West song) I'd personally like to see him do something really ambitious, but I think we'll have to wait on anything creative for a while. At the moment I'm sure his contracts wouldn't allow even a slight deviation from the formula.

Out of curiosity, do you know if he writes his own material?

Originally Posted by Sansa Stark

I'm down with Jesus, in that case.

Originally Posted by Sansa Stark

I'm down with Jesus, in that case.

Originally Posted by khfreek

Justin Bieber doesn't deserve all the crap he gets. He sounds just like everything else on the radio.

They deserve all the crap in equal portions

Originally Posted by Sansa Stark

I'm down with Jesus, in that case.

Originally Posted by khfreek

I don't know what gave you the impression, but I don't care how technically gifted people on the radio are, that's not why I dislike them. Anyone can carry a tune, that doesn't make their music any less soulless. Justin Bieber sings about the same trite things to the same tired beats that everyone else on the radio does, and people choose to pick on him because he's somewhat of an oddity, sounding like a girl and all. They don't see the hypocrisy in bashing him and then blaring the new Kesha song or Like a G6.

Originally Posted by Sansa Stark

I'm down with Jesus, in that case.

Originally Posted by khfreek

I don't know what gave you the impression, but I don't care how technically gifted people on the radio are, that's not why I dislike them. Anyone can carry a tune, that doesn't make their music any less soulless. Justin Bieber sings about the same trite things to the same tired beats that everyone else on the radio does, and people choose to pick on him because he's somewhat of an oddity, sounding like a girl and all. They don't see the hypocrisy in bashing him and then blaring the new Kesha song or Like a G6.

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

Well pretty much everything's been done, it's just a matter of keeping it just fresh enough, just well-timed enough to bring it out and for it to be popular. It may have been done, but obviously all of the people who love it haven't heard it before or frankly don't give a ****.

Originally Posted by Conan

You misunderstood what I was saying, as you and I are essentially on the same page with this. I think Justin Bieber does have a good talent. And I think the whole YouTube sensation thing is just an obvious prologue to his success because that talent will be recognized, and a good looking young man with a good talent is his appeal.

What I am saying, is that his appeal and his talent were recognized as being profitable. A lot of people forget that if he couldn't actually sing, he wouldn't be anywhere. It is essentially his talent as a singer that got him into the position he is in. However, you have to admit that there are certainly more talented singers out there, and that his marketing is a great big chunk of what got him so popular. Clever marketing works the same way with bands, too. If a group already has talent and a natural appeal, they are marketable and depending on how well the marketing team does, often depends on how successful they become. Everyone can admit that there are unheard of bands that probably have more talent than successful bands. But it all boils down to the general publics taste. If, for example, Bieber was an expert yodeler, we wouldn't know who he was. That's because yodeling isn't a popular form of music in this country. So no matter the quality of the marketing, we still wouldn't know him. Since, however, his music is very appealing to the general public - as with all pop stars - he is very marketable. And I still think he's very talented, it's just that his production team are really the ones responsible for his success.

That being said, his music is so over-produced that it's almost impossible for people to tell if he really has vocal ability or not. This breeds a lot of hatred for him among younger males, especially those who are beginning to reject "mainstream pop trash" and listen to "real music" like Sick Puppies.

I don't think there are many on this forum who would flat out diss pop music in such a way, as it's generally seen as immature to do such. But many of them simply don't bother with it, because they figure 1. It's not their thing, or 2. it's not marketed toward them, so they won't enjoy it.

As for 1 - since the majority of people in the western world are, whether they realize it or not, pop music fans, the inclination to seek something else, something better is the biggest reason for this. Creativity, honesty, and sincerity are always admired. This makes some people feel like pop music is "fake", which is naturally unappealing. It may not be accurate, since obviously there's a lot of effort and skill involved in making pop music, but it's still the stigma it gets because it generally lacks innovation or creativity - mostly due to pressures from the business men who run the industry. If it sells, sell it! Even if these often demonized "higher ups" do have a genuine love for music (and most of them do, they aren't soulless), it's still a business.

Others just prefer deeper music, and don't bother with pop because they're perfectively satisfied with what they have. And when you really get to thinking about it, people can discuss popular acts with almost anybody on the street. So why join a site like MusicBanter to begin with?

As for 2 - You won't find many people on this forum who listen to, say, a Disney Pop princess. Because that music is aimed at a specific target audience. You may find those who listen to Lady Gaga (who I think is actually a very talented and creative individual) because she is simply a Pop Star - with a general appeal.

Justin Bieber I think falls somewhere in between. Because of his age, many see him as a Disney figure like the infamous Jonas Brothers (who may be talented in their own right, but show about zero creativity and are generally just seen as pons of the Disney corporation. But other's see him as simply a young talent, who needs time to grow and mature artistically. Unlike a Disney sponsored star, he won't be thrown out like yesterday's newspaper the minute his album sales start to drop. He's getting more and more respect from other musicians who recognize his talent (heck, he did a verse opposite Raekwon in that Kanye West song) I'd personally like to see him do something really ambitious, but I think we'll have to wait on anything creative for a while. At the moment I'm sure his contracts wouldn't allow even a slight deviation from the formula.

Out of curiosity, do you know if he writes his own material?

Originally Posted by Conan

I wrote a damn novel.

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

k vegangelica.

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

Shakira. Urgh!