Is Pop Music Really So Simple?
 

I recently had an argument with a friend about what constitutes "Pop Music". He said that pop music must be simple, repetitive, easy to digest and very popular. I disagreed. I believe that pop music is a style, but is not necessarily popular or simple.

-Wikipedia (Pop Music)

I have heard a lot of music that fits these characteristics and is not popular, but I don't have any solid examples of non-complicated, non-popular pop music. Anybody wanna help me out? That or tear apart my argument?

The Vaselines are a good example of a pop group that aren't "popular". Check them out. I disagree with the idea that pop is "whatever is popular". To me that's a really shallow undersigning of just what it is.

Of course, if we're talking Western Popular Music (not to be confused with Pop as a genre) then Popular music isn't simple at all, as it umbrellas over jazz, metal, and a lot of ther very technical genres.

I totally agree with you. And I have argued here for a wider definition of pop, but nowadays most seem to want to limit it to big label chart music. Quite a lot of indie for example is actually pop. People used to have a much wider definition of pop and I think that was healthier.

Pop Music contains a number of sub-genres to choose from that constitutes musical versatility in the pop genre, Baroque pop, Bubblegum pop, Christian pop, Dance-pop, Electropop, Europop, Indie pop, Operatic pop, Power pop, Soundtrack, Sophisti-pop, Synthpop, Space age pop, Sunshine pop, Traditional pop, & Teen pop. And that's not holding into account the numerous Fusion Genres to choose from also like, Country pop, Disco, Dream pop, Jangle pop, Pop punk, Hip pop, Pop rock, Psychedelic pop, Technopop, & Urban pop.

There's a lot of different musical styles and versatility to consider in popular music.

Yes I know, but most younger people don't see that now, they just look at it as big label chart music. If I say it isn't that on sites then my comments tend to just get ignored.

This might sound over simplified, but isn't pop music what is most popular with the masses? Pop has changed by sound over time with synth pop in the 80's, r and b in the 90's and electronic pop music now.

Not all pop music is famous, not all that is considered rock is obscure. Pop can be 'indie' and rock can be mainstream.

I consider pop music to be anything that can be digestible commercially regardless of genre.

Quite a lot of rock music is that too.

A lot of rock is popular music.

Some rock music can be very simple and repetitive.

Yes, it is any music that is popular and mainstream. It tends to be sold for the mass and comercial imperative and rarely covers anything that may have a serious message in it.

It all depends on the artist who is making the music. Rock and country music is even considered to be simple (what did Harlan Howard say and Bono echo, "3 chords and the truth". Talk about simplicity. I think that many younger listeners have an axe to grind with Pop music (the Justin Beibers, Jessica Simpsons etc.) Lots of people say that they don't make music like they use to. That is the truth. However, life is impermanent. Change is necessary and music is still good these days.

A lot of rock music is basically love songs too. And all music is made with an intent to be sold. And although you say what people call pop nowadays (big label chart music) is aimed at the masses the truth is many people of all ages don't like it too. And there is much pop that isn't well known and so can't sell as much as it doesn't get the same exposure.

Agree to a certain extent, not all music is made with the intent to sold. Some music is made for the love of it and for people who appreciate the music to share with them. These are the bands/artsists that don't go very far up the ladder and don't make a lot of money sady.

Pop isn't just chart music, it's anything that is mainstream and popular and that sells. The charts are generally for younger people, one of the only commercial media products that is aimed at precisely this age demographic.

Arguably most music is made for the love of it. Most music I think is made with an audience in mind, whether that be a large or small one. And something that isn't chart music isn't mainstream in the conventional sense? Young people certainly tend to be the main focus for chart music, but sometimes in the past maybe more older groups could enjoy chart music as well, nowadays perhaps less so.

I disagree with this, with every generation most parents pretty much despise whatever their kids are listening to and want them to turn it down.

They go around claiming that music back in their day was of higher quality than whatever their kids are listening to.

I agree. But maybe more parents enjoyed disco in the 70s for example than enjoy Lady Gaga now. Anyway I said more and not most.

I think you guys are trying to umbrella too much stuff together: "Pop" can refer to anything repetitive and simplistic, but that's not necessarily the same as a band/artist having good "pop sensibility".

Take bands like 10cc, Gentle Giant, It Bites, or Gentle Giant for instance: they'd do commericial length/commercially viable music and infuse that music with multiple time changes, eclectic instrumentation, dissonance and sometimes fairly complex lyrics...and often succeed in bringing all these seemingly incompatible elements together with flourish.

Pop, my friends, is only limited by what you perceive it to be. The longer you keep your ear to the ground, the more likely you'll be to run across music that contradicts common definition.

I know, I said early on here that pop isn't really a genre. 10cc obviously did songs that are more pop style, by 70s standards anyway. Obviously over time how people view a style can change.

Exactly. I think you limit yourself too much if you set a white and black definition of what a genre is supposed to be. Sujfan Stevens is a pretty good example of fairly complicated pop music.

that's why I'm saying I disagree, it's probably about the same equal level of hatred/distaste.

I dont' think parents enjoyed disco in the 70s, sure my current parents enjoyed disco back in the 70s that's because they were the young rebels. Their parents most likely hated disco with a burning passion.

Well it depends what generation of parents we are talking about then maybe. Grandparents probably didn't like it so much but I was more thinking about people slightly younger but still an older age group than teens. I still think my words 'more older groups' (not every) is relevant.

this is my whole point, the generation gap, it would have been equal/the same.

people that are slightly older than teen range love Lady Gaga and pop music in general especially since they grew up during the whole backstreet boys/Britney popstars time period.

I mean more 30s 40s.

I could understand some 30s still being into it but 40s might as well be parents of the teenagers so they wouldn't be a good example.

All this mainstream charts music is not made for the love of it, it's a business/job with the aim of making money. Nothing more, nothing less. Sing, look pretty, dance go home. Blah blah blah.

That's what I mean though, people in their 30s 40s may feel little connection to Lady Gaga or other big chart names. But in some earlier periods it may have been slightly different. Record sales aren't what they used to be and I think that is partly because of a diminished audience for chart music (compared to the past).

This defines how simple pop music is:

Most metal is quite simple.

All music is quite simple really.

:rolleyes: I feel so inspired by the simplicity of your answer, you must be a musical prodigy.

All this time..I thought certain aspects of jazz/rock could be complicated.

Have you ever tried to cover the guitar & vocals of Robert Johnson?

Robert Johnson's music at its core is not that difficult - it's just a different tuning

trying to sound "exactly" like him is hard, though, the feel is hard to recreate, the best i can do is sound like Clapton trying to be Robert Johnson

but as i've said, the music itself is not that hard to play, i have the transcriptions to all his songs

I understand that the timing sequence of his guitar and vocals to be very difficult, Clapton stated that one could spend a life time trying to emulate his music perfect. Timing sequence can prove to be much more complicated and innovative than tuning. Although I do understand your point concerning basic chord structure.

I'd once heard pop music described as any music structured with verses and choruses. I see the validity of this, but also would include an emphasis on melody in my own definition.

Yes, which is why prog and jazz exists.

As for the thread, it's not really that simple. Catchy, yes, but simple.

like i said earlier I disagree with your statement and we'll have to agree to disagree on that part of it but now you are bringing up record sales and that's a whole 'nother beast.

The reason for lower record sales has to do with the availability to get the music online also the economic times that we are living it, I hardly think it has anything to do with a diminished audience. Also people are learning that artists aren't getting much from record sales anyways so they will still show up in droves to support concerts/tours but the record sales won't reflect their true fan base.

Well I did say partly, so yes of course online availability of music will hamper sales in general. Though I still think there is less general interest in chart music than there used to be.

Ok I change my answer. You have your Kesha's, which make simple music, while on the otherside of the spectrum you have your Meshuggah's, Dream Theater's etc., which make music that is quite complex. Of Course not all music is simple. Sorry if I ticked anyone off.

Pet Sounds is quite an elaborate production and that is pop.