APC is not a valid comparison with Tool, anyway. Just because Maynard is the singer doesn't make the bands in any measure alike, and not being alike in any way at all means that any comparison is futile. Also, Maynard's songwriting input is not at all dominant in either band, making it even less of a valid comparison.

Most of the good in Tool arises out of the three actual musicians, and in APC it is the production of Howerdel.

Tool would have to win my vote. The density of their music demands my full attention. It's definitely not background music. The more you listen the deeper the sound gets. Their approach to the hard rock scene is unlike anyone I have ever heard. The intelligence of the band members really comes through in their sound and the way they build their songs. They utilize time signatures unseen in modern rock. APC is badass but Tool takes the cake. Danny Carry is inhuman. Just listen to Ticks and Leeches (Lateralus). The live version of Pu**** (Salival) really shows off Maynard's voice. Gives me goosebumps.

This is why everyone hates Tool fans.

How is that any different from any other person talking about their favourite artist?

I don't understand Tool fan hate.

It is different. When most people hype their favourite band, they don't make out like that band is doing things that are virtually unknown/unseen/inconceivable anywhere else. They don't speak with such ignorance. What your average Tool fanboy doesn't realize is that, in the grand scheme of things, Tool aren't even that experimental! Hell, they're not even inaccessible compared to a lot of the stuff that's out there. Tool fanboys see the band as being the most revolutionary, cutting-edge, experimental, other-worldly thing ever. Anybody who's really listened to a proper range of alternative music would never be able to say such things. So whenever you see people making those sorts of comments, it's always just cringe-inducing and repulsive.

I suppose, but it's a wide generalisation to make because Tool are my favourite band but I definitely don't think they are the most revolutionary or cutting edge musicians I've ever seen. And I've come across plenty of other fanboys out there who have pretty much the same thing to say about other musicians.

But I see where you're coming from. I'm a Tool fan, don't hate me!

Tool were my favourite band for years. I don't feel right saying they're my favourite anymore seeing as I don't listen to them that often, but I still say they're great.

I get that a lot of Tool fans are pretentious losers but let's not hold it against all of 'em.

their both great, lateralus is amazing.

Seeing a live TOOL show is pretty awesome. I've always loved their music, but my main attraction to them had nothing to do with Maynard, who is a great singer and fits perfectly in the toolbox.
Adam Jones is the mastermind behind tool. His melodies on guitar and his visual artwork is an ageless inspiration to me.
TOOL never gets old to me.
Although I could never say that TOOL is the best I've ever heard, musically... I CAN say that I identify with them on a level I could never reach with any other band.
That personal identification is what makes TOOL a great band for me.
And I don't think it should be any other way.

I agree. They're definitely something I have to be in the mood for, but regardless I must admit I take more from their music than I do anyone else. It is more valuable on a philosophical and spiritual level than most.

Is there any credibility to the stories of people who were driven mad by Maynard's live persona?

Thank you, I feel the same way. It's sad to hear someone worship Maynard, when Jones is the true genius. Yeah, Maynard has a few side projects (including his own vineyard :confused:), but I honestly don't understand all the hype about Puscifer or A Perfect Circle.

You're right - Tool isn't the best I've ever heard, either. I don't know what the best I've ever heard is because I'm still trying to expand more and more. I, too, identify with them personally in a way that is quite rare, but that's not to say I've never felt this way from listening to other musicians.

Although they do have qualities about them that can be found elsewhere, I think other bands will never (including A Perfect Circle) will never be able to produce that classic Tool atmosphere. Not just at their live shows, but when their music is played, it brings with it a completely different energy.

I identify most with their lyrics. I'm unsure of who writes them, but I hope its a collective project; however, something as personal as Wings for Marie Pt. 1, Prison Sex, and 10,000 Days would probably be written alone. I can shamelessly say the first time I listened to Parabol and Parabola while reading the lyrics, I cried. This repeated with Lateralus and The Patient. I guess I'm just an emotional little fucker.

I'm as staunch a Tool fan as anyone,and i can say without shame that 10KD sucked.Hard.They had better make up for it on the new album.I'll be happy with Lateralus 2.

I guess I can see how you can say that if we compare 10,000 Days to the other albums, but how many times did you listen to it? Personally, with the lyrics taken into account, I do believe that 10,000 Days is the "Lateralus II." Sure, "The Pot" was not the most impressive song to debut their album with, but what about "Right in Two"? "Vicarious"? I liked Lateralus better, too, but it 10,000 Days has its share of brilliance.

Tool is intelligent music. Dummies don't get it. Sure, some intelligent people don't like it, but dummies just don't get it.

Can't wait to see them live! Summer tour dates to be announced... I hope they come to New Zealand!

LOL yeah, it would be fairly cool to see them live. they're easily one of my favorite bands.

I'm sure they won't be performing too far from where you are DM.

Definitely one of my favourites too. I can't get closure on them. Like, some bands and albums I'll get over when I know the lyrics and can finger-drum the sound haha but Tool, I discover something new everytime I listen to an album. I guess that's why I like them so much. They don't bore me.

Has anyone heard much of Puscifer? I've only heard a couple of tracks and... um... I'm undecided I guess.

I know all their songs on bass. they throw in all the wierd time sigs and Bass power chords. Certifiably impossible to slap LOL...:usehead:

I may be coming in to this thread WAY too late, but I was wondering what is going on with A Perfect Circle... are there any new recordings / albums in the pipelines / on the horizon...

I listened to V for Vagina a couple of times when it came out, and I can't say I was impressed. Maybe I need to listen to it again, but I don't see what the hype is.

they're a little too techno for me. but as anything with mr. Keenan goes, I like the art lol

Puscifer hits a very specific chord for me. If I'm in the right mood, it's fantastic. Indigo Children/Queen B from the original album are tight, and the remix of Drunk With Power on V for Viagra is also one of my favorites (I don't even mind Jordison's mixing/drumming).

I'd have to disagree with that in that I feel he's kind of overrated. No doubt, he has a damn good voice and even more so, great lyrics, but he's is too often mistaken as the mastermind of Tool. There is no ONE mastermind of Tool - the blatant talent, I feel, comes collectively as a band. I am more partial to Adam Jones.

What about the drums
 

I see no love here for the rythm that makes both APC and Tool so easy to listen to over and over. Danny Carey for Tool and Tim Alexander/Josh Freese for APC.
In my opinion, those guys can be credited with not allowing the music to get stale or old over the years. A new beat for every song, something we don't see all that much anymore. As a drummer i respect it because I can listed to one of their songs a hundred times and still question what comes next.
A band that evolves constantly and still retains their fanbase!! How many people listened to APC initially just because it was an offshoot of tool?

The fact that this thread is entitled Tool/A Perfect Circle, I find that a little simple. Just basically lumping in one with the other because they share the same frontman.

Personally, I don't really care for much of APC or Puscifer. And it's not hating on them because they're the "secondhand" projects of Maynard James Keenan. Not at all. They just haven't really struck anything in me.

The same thing happens, I think, with artists like Mike Patton or Philip Anselmo. The fact that the same voice is projecting from these different bands just creates a tendency to pool them all together.

Tool, on the other hand are one of my all-time favorites. And at times, I feel like Keenan might be a little bitter at the fact that he lucked out with his first successful band. I just don't think that as many people will ever be touched by APC/Puscifer as there were by Tool.

And all the people who think that he's some sort of "mastermind" behind the creativity of Tool. I think that those are strictly people who relate to it on a lyrical level, which would make sense why they would place Tool at the same level with Maynard's other projects. But to me, the music arrangement and lyrics of Tool all work together to make the sonic giant that they give birth to.

The Official Tool Thread
 

At this point in the discussion, I feel like we've gone 'round and 'round in circles.

You know...I cried the first time I listened to Third Eye. 5.1 Bose Surround sound cranked 4/5 power. Several others had the same effect when I read the lyrics. Lateralus brings new things to my mind every time I listen through the album.

well, dude, Phil Anselmo's side projects all feature Rex Brown (the reason I picked up a bass) so they're bound to be similar to Pantera. Plus they're all f*ckin awesome XP

Tool is a really amazing band, very creative. I like bands that have there own intelligence to them, very unique band indeed. A Perfect Circle to me is a just a more mainstream Tool, more catchy lyrics, but just as good.

I wouldn't say overall APC is as good as Tool, but songs like 3 Libras have impacted me just as powerfully as a lot of Tool songs.

^ I agree. As for being mainstream, they both are equal in that aspect, I think.