The Future of Prog looking forward, Grim?

JGuy Grungeman · 01-07-2016, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Well, it seems your labels is attracting the really amateurish stuff.
This might give you some bias, but there has been so, so much great prog released after the seventies.
Sure, have your opinion, but as I said, it seems very narrow minded and clueless.

Everybody has a right to think whatever he wants about music. But this 'modern prog' we are talking about here isn't one monolithic genre. We are talking about thousands and thousands of bands and albums being released in the incredibly long span of over thirty years.
Prog has been and is amazingly varied, more varied than ever actually. If a self-professed prog fan is unable to find lots and lots of stuff one likes in this variety, the fault lies with him, not with the music.

That's exactly what I was saying in the Boston thread. People's opinions. I never said anything about blaming music. And yes, it is a fault. But it's still an opinion.

grindy · 01-07-2016, 04:27 PM

Well, sure it's an opinion, what else? A cucumber?

Trollheart · 01-07-2016, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

This was all that was said in the first post. The worry that prog's future is looking grim is at least rational. What he said about electronic wasn't.

TR, music is a collaboration of sounds used to create a rhythmatic experience that's pleasing to the ears. But that depends on the ears. What's good is debatable. What is and is not music isa bad way to look at things. Even a guy banging on pots to an uneven tempo and singing off key to a different tempo is still music, but it'll likely suck.

You leave Frown .... oh. Batty beat me to it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Hey, you leave Frownland alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

No it's not rational. One has to be pretty clueless about prog, if one thinks there hasn't been awesome stuff constantly released after the seventies.
Even if someone is as incredibly narrow minded as the thread starter, there is still enough RetroProg channelling the good old days to have fun with.

It's incredibly insulting to the bigger prog acts (acts Batty would probably happily drown) to say nothing decent has emerged since the seventies. Hugely narrow-minded and, if he's basing his opinion only on the submissions he receives, then he has no right to comment on the state of prog. What about the bands who don't go near his little label? Are they crap just because he doesn't manage/represent them??

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

But you agree that music is subjective? If so, you also agree he can believe that there is a lot of awesome modern prog. He is a prog fan, and he likes modern prog as well. The fact that you disagree doesn't necessarily make it true. I like brostep. Most people don't. That doesn't necessarily mean the genre itself is good.

You can say prog is good/bad but you can't make an umbrella decision on how it's faring, just because you don't happen to like what you hear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

I have listened to tons of new stuff actually. We have a label, so we get bombarded with demos and links to soundcloud, bandcamp, itunes etc. I would say for every 100 things I listen to, maybe one sounds like it was a recording of a group of musicians playing music. The rest sounds like digital sound collaging. So that stuff is better to be released by someone who is into that kind of thing. It's just too lifeless and sterile sounding for our tastes.

Are we not allowed an opinion here?

Yeah, to you. From one terribly limited and specific source. Do you not listen to any of the more popular prog? Have you even heard of Progfest?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

We are well aware of ProTools and all the modern digital gadgets that can make most anyone sound tight and clean. When things sound altered, it comes across as pretending. I think one of the reasons the 90's grunge scene or the 70's punk scene took off was because it simply felt real again. I think that's been missing in Prog for a very long time, and why I believe the genre will continue to decline until it wakes up and realizes it needs to sound more naturally connecting.

Please shut up about Pro Tools. How do you know bands like Spock's Beard, Arena, Marillion, Porcupine Tree et al are using them? You don't. You're assuming. And even if they are, they're not using them to MAKE their music. They can all play, which is something you are deliberately avoiding, as you have never once responded to my pointing this out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

This post was not intended to be spam. I think that is quite an unfair assessment.

Someone was questioning the credibility of our label and why only three youtube posts. We are a prog / art rock label since 1998. Been around quite a while now. We are a part, a small part of the future of prog, so I don't think it's off topic either.

God I hope not, with your terrible attitude and arrogant opinions. I don't like it, therefore the whole genre is in decline?

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Well, sure it's an opinion, what else? A cucumber?

Maybe the Bolivian Navy on manoeuvres in the South Pacific?

Tributary Records · 01-07-2016, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

You leave Frown .... oh. Batty beat me to it!

It's incredibly insulting to the bigger prog acts (acts Batty would probably happily drown) to say nothing decent has emerged since the seventies. Hugely narrow-minded and, if he's basing his opinion only on the submissions he receives, then he has no right to comment on the state of prog. What about the bands who don't go near his little label? Are they crap just because he doesn't manage/represent them??

You can say prog is good/bad but you can't make an umbrella decision on how it's faring, just because you don't happen to like what you hear.

Yeah, to you. From one terribly limited and specific source. Do you not listen to any of the more popular prog? Have you even heard of Progfest?

Please shut up about Pro Tools. How do you know bands like Spock's Beard, Arena, Marillion, Porcupine Tree et al are using them? You don't. You're assuming. And even if they are, they're not using them to MAKE their music. They can all play, which is something you are deliberately avoiding, as you have never once responded to my pointing this out.

God I hope not, with your terrible attitude and arrogant opinions. I don't like it, therefore the whole genre is in decline?

Maybe the Bolivian Navy on manoeuvres in the South Pacific?

The point is that the 70's and before was a completely different way of going about things. The protocol of analog tape recording IS a way of going about things. The process is very different. The digital age enabled a lot of musicians who lacked certain musical skill sets to enter the game. This does have a downside.

For example we have had several if not many artists attempt to record in our studio and they simply can't cut it. They know it, we know it. They just can't get it done without major assistance from things like Pro Tools or other programs which offer endless digital manipulation options.

So to stay on topic here, the majority of prog bands that we hear have jumped on that bus, and while some of them CAN certainly get it done, many cannot live, so where in the past a great band could really stand out and get the attention of the music public, it's much harder for them to do that with recordings because the process has become so homogenized and modern releases are expected to have seamlessly slick production values. But the more processed it becomes, the more sterile it often sounds.

grindy · 01-07-2016, 06:24 PM

Nobody cares about the bands your label attracts.
There were, are and will be tons of talented, amazing prog bands.
Deal with it.

Hypocrisy · 01-07-2016, 06:55 PM

There are in my opinion a lot of great prog bands that have emerged since the 70's : First Band From Outer Space, Ira Los Dios , Hydria Space Folk, etc. Prog metal bands Death, Nevermore, Enslaved ..etc. I could make a long list of prog bands since the 70s I really dig but am also a huge fan of the old masters : Gentle Giant, King Crimson and so fourth.

In the long run however its just one guys opinion vs anothers and I am not bothered by the fact that the OPs tastes differs from my own.

Trollheart · 01-07-2016, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tributary Records

The point is that the 70's and before was a completely different way of going about things. The protocol of analog tape recording IS a way of going about things. The process is very different. The digital age enabled a lot of musicians who lacked certain musical skill sets to enter the game. This does have a downside.

For example we have had several if not many artists attempt to record in our studio and they simply can't cut it. They know it, we know it. They just can't get it done without major assistance from things like Pro Tools or other programs which offer endless digital manipulation options.

So to stay on topic here, the majority of prog bands that we hear have jumped on that bus, and while some of them CAN certainly get it done, many cannot live, so where in the past a great band could really stand out and get the attention of the music public, it's much harder for them to do that with recordings because the process has become so homogenized and modern releases are expected to have seamlessly slick production values. But the more processed it becomes, the more sterile it often sounds.

The point is you're talking bollox. You still stick to your rigid definition of "new" prog as being confined to the artistes, good or bad, you get in your studio. The world's a much bigger place man: face it, you're a tiny fish in a massive pond, and some of the sharks out there have teeth you can't even dream of! Examples:
Cosmograff

Karfagen

Spock's Beard

Willowglass

I don't know if these bands or arists (first and last are one-man outfits) use Pro Tools or whatever, and I don't care. They can play. They can compose. They don't get this sort of beauty from pasting stuff on a computer.

Neapolitan · 01-07-2016, 07:40 PM

I am going to have to disagree with you Trollheart. I fear I might break away from the MusicBanter camp and defect over to Tributary Records' side. I dare say the 70s Progressive Rock was much better.

It don't get much better than Pre-Pro-Tool-Prog!!!

Egg - Seven Is A Jolly Good Time - 1970

Le Orme - Collage (1971)

ENGLAND - The Imperial Hotel

JGuy Grungeman · 01-07-2016, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Nobody cares about the bands your label attracts.
There were, are and will be tons of talented, amazing prog bands.
Deal with it.

Ok, I'm aware of forums, but you csn't claim one thing's a dumb move and try to counteract it with a dick move.

TR, I'd like some good examples of your record. I have a personal interest in smaller labels. I don't care how bad the forum is to other people.

Neapolitan · 01-07-2016, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Ok, I'm aware of forums, but you csn't claim one thing's a dumb move and try to counteract it with a dick move.

TR, I'd like some good examples of your record. I have a personal interest in smaller labels. I don't care how bad the forum is to other people.

I agree with you on both points.

01-07-2016, 04:27 PM	#82 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	Well, sure it's an opinion, what else? A cucumber? __________________ *A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.*

01-07-2016, 06:24 PM	#85 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	Nobody cares about the bands your label attracts. There were, are and will be tons of talented, amazing prog bands. Deal with it. __________________ *A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.*

01-07-2016, 06:55 PM	#86 (permalink)
Hypocrisy Surfin Sonic Destruction Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: mother gaia Posts: 220	There are in my opinion a lot of great prog bands that have emerged since the 70's : First Band From Outer Space, Ira Los Dios , Hydria Space Folk, etc. Prog metal bands Death, Nevermore, Enslaved ..etc. I could make a long list of prog bands since the 70s I really dig but am also a huge fan of the old masters : Gentle Giant, King Crimson and so fourth. In the long run however its just one guys opinion vs anothers and I am not bothered by the fact that the OPs tastes differs from my own.