its not that i can't appreciate it. i see why people like and respect it so much. i just don't like it. and its not that is his voice is just "too clean" its just bad. its annoying. to me, its grating.

plus, what is so great about the rest of the sound on dookie? they were trying for punk revival which i can appreciate but they brought nothing new to the table. it had all been done before and much better, i might add.

There wasn't anything new and complex about it, but what they did, pop punk, they did very well. Who doesn't love those drums and bass between 'Chump' and 'Longview'?

pop punk is an oxymoron.

(I'm gonna assume its okay to add hardcore bands to this list)

1. Dead Kennedys
2. Black Flag
3. Fugazi
4. Circle Jerks
5. The Dillinger Escape Plan
6. Suicidal Tendencies (early stuff)
7. D.R.I.
8. The Clash
9. Agnostic Front
10. Agent Orange

yeah, and a damn catchy oxymoron at that...

people like is why punk is on the edge of dieing altogether. if it wasn't for D.I.Y. and folk-punk, it would be dead entirely.

There is no would, it is dead. It's been dead and buried for a long time. But people who see dollar signs try to keep the lie alive.

:laughing:

If we're doing sub-genres...

Fugazi
Alexisonfire
Andrew Jackson Jihad
Black Flag
Descendents
Refused
mewithoutYou
At the Drive-In
Minor Threat
Minutemen

This is such BS. There are many underground punk and hardcore bands with DIY ethics that are consistently putting out music and playing shows. Just because you don't hear about these bands doesn't mean that punk is "dead".

And seriously, punk has to be the genre with the most subjective definition in the history of music.