Ugh. Thirtiesgirl... English is a living language. If people use the word Twat to mean "idiot" or "jerk" then that's what they mean. The origin or original meaning of the word is irrelevant. Do you really think any here think of a vagina as something negative? Or that Dayna, herself a woman, thinks of women negatively? D.ck is a common word, yet when used as an insult - it hardly implies that a person is like a penis. It implies he is arrogant or stupid.



So basically, who cares what words are supposed to mean. Focus on what they mean at the moment, in context. It makes speaking English a lot more fun.

Paloma, are you trying to show off your tattoo or your hairy legs? I am being dead serious, pic is too grainy to tell.

Also, I have an idea... Why don't you guys (whoops, I meant girls! Don't wanna sound anti feminist!!!) stop being so touchy on words that weren't even offensive to me in 1st grade. Perhaps quit trying your hardest to find something feminist as well.

Her tattoo is the feminist logo.

I am not a feminist and did not know that. Thank you.

Stop using feminism like it's an insult. People like thirtiesgirl make it like a ****ing swearword when they nitpick everyone about their tiny little Non-PC blips and act like they caused the holocaust. Feminism is not a BAD thing. It's not about hating men, but thirtiesgirl, you sure seem to be actively engaging in a lot of man hate. I don't know if you know this, but it's not only females who suffer from oppression. Males are also under a lot of oppression, especially from their own fathers to be all that is "man". And you know what the sad thing is? A lot of women feed that. You need to realise that we are not our genders, we are PEOPLE.

I am a feminist, but I am a RATIONAL ONE and don't blame the problems of our gender on silly things like FLIPPANTLY USED WORDS.

Is that real?

You're not funny

Well I mean

Feminism is basically just women standing up for themselves and being proud of being a woman. It's wanting to be seen for more than our vaginas and she sets us back by making our vaginas the most important thing and blaming men for it. It's the same with all big beliefs: don't shove it down someone's throat if you wanna get anywhere with it.

Oh for Gods sake. Do we talk about anything else since thirtiesgirl joined?

Language evolves. The word "twat" is now NOT exclusively used to refer to a female body part and everyone knows this. You are entitled not to like the use of the word but if someone is using it as a generic insult and you know this to be the case, then why be offended? Just let it go.

Trying to force your opinion on people is something that others will visciously attack you for. It's insensitive, it's frustrating, it's insulting and it's disrespectful. Why should we care less about your opinions when you show ours so little respect by trying to force your shit on us? Stop bringing every little thing back to respect for women. I haven't seen you treat any of us with respect yet so just to let you know, you won't get any back.

This is getting ****ing ridiculous. All the off topic discussion in this thread should be moved or deleted.

Agreed. We go back on topic now or everything that is off-topic (including my post) gets deleted or the thread is locked.

Okay.
I was never much of a Bikini Kill fan but there is some awesome stuff out there, like Bratmobile, Team Dresch, Sleater-Kinney and Helium are all great!
I still need to get into Le Tigre and The Gits, but I like what I've heard.

Mojo, I feel that debates over the best methods to use to achieve feminist goals are very relevant to discussions of the Riot Grrl movement and which Riot Grrl band is one's favorite, so I'm sorry if you are indeed banishing that debate from the thread. However, I understand you want to stop any personal attacks, and I agree with that.

I feel the debate between thirtiesgirl and Paloma shows the rifts in the feminist movement that are reflected in the varying opinions about which Riot Grrl bands people like. Do they like angry, adamant bands in which women defy cultural standards of passivity and gentleness, thus riling more members of the general public? Or softer, subtler bands where the singers work within more conventional standards for women's beauty...and I don't just mean outward beauty but the beauty of a person's personality.

I think Paloma seems to share a concern of some younger feminists that outspoken antipathy toward patriarchal namecalling trivializes feminism in the eyes of the public, and so jeopardizes the whole cause.

My view is that the more people express their real views, the better it is. A song that rails on society for something many think is trivial is still valuable because the song is a valid expression of the singers' views.

I haven't listened to enough Riot Grrl songs to know if I have a favorite group, but I still do enjoy the subtlety and simplicity of Tattle Tale's song, "A Girl's Toolbox," which I posted earlier.

First, Tattle Tale cleverly usurp namecalling and turn it into something positive by referring to a girl's tool BOX, a term for female genitalia. Next, they show in the song that women are much more than their genitalia...we have constructive and reproductive powers (as do men) in our tool boxes.

The more I think about that song, "A Girl's Toolbox," the more I like it. So I probably would most appreciate Riot Grrl groups that use gentle subtlety in their lyrics to emphasize the humanity of women. However, I also like strong, forceful angry songs, too. Best of all would be a Riot Grrl group that creates all sorts of feminist songs with all softs of moods and perspectives.

Which Riot Grrl group might that be, where in one song they scream their anger at the horrors perpetrated by those with patriarchal belief systems, and yet in the next song they attempt to softly draw listeners into treating girls and women respectfully and kindly?

It just seems that this debate has now reached several threads and this one, although I understand the obvious connection, is in the music forums where the discussions should be kept to, well, music!

Can someone just start a thread already where we can debate feminist issues?

No

Oh and Vegangelica, you are actually bringing this back to music in some way with your last post. In the nearly thirty posts before it, the vast majority had nothing to do with music at all.

Sorry Mojo, lol

Okay, so on the subject of riot grrl, I feel that female post punk bands are a lot better

What about my post?

I said nearly. I think that meant everyone bar you and Engine. Cant' be bothered to check.

Probably my only taste of this genre so far:



I would love more songs like this if anybody can recommend some.

Tbqh, I just laugh at them but I'm sure they're sincere with what they say. I suppose that's half the battle.

Hilarity has already ensued:
http://www.musicbanter.com/current-e...-involved.html

As if having a tattoo makes one a feminist. ...Best laugh I've had in days, though.

Paloma, don't even bother responding to that. As the moderation staff has said, post in this thread if you want to talk about Riot Grrrl music or leave.

Bikini Kill was the best punk band of the '90s imo. Or at least one of the best post '80s hardcore bands.

*waits for someone to start complaining about them not being real hardcore, or something*

Lol, Bikini Kill are awesome. Who cares what they are?

i love it too.

My favorite riot grrrl song is probably "Pagan Babies" by Bratmobile. You should check out Au Pairs. Really good post-punk band from the late 70's/early 80's fronted by a radical lesbian (and backed by male band members. So if people ever claim that "oh my gods, they sooo secksist!!!" just tell them that). They were a big influnce on the riot grrrl scene.

The Au Pairs are **** compared to the Slits

I like them both, actually.

I also like both.

Oh. :D