This is getting ****ing ridiculous. All the off topic discussion in this thread should be moved or deleted.

Agreed. We go back on topic now or everything that is off-topic (including my post) gets deleted or the thread is locked.

Okay.
I was never much of a Bikini Kill fan but there is some awesome stuff out there, like Bratmobile, Team Dresch, Sleater-Kinney and Helium are all great!
I still need to get into Le Tigre and The Gits, but I like what I've heard.

Mojo, I feel that debates over the best methods to use to achieve feminist goals are very relevant to discussions of the Riot Grrl movement and which Riot Grrl band is one's favorite, so I'm sorry if you are indeed banishing that debate from the thread. However, I understand you want to stop any personal attacks, and I agree with that.

I feel the debate between thirtiesgirl and Paloma shows the rifts in the feminist movement that are reflected in the varying opinions about which Riot Grrl bands people like. Do they like angry, adamant bands in which women defy cultural standards of passivity and gentleness, thus riling more members of the general public? Or softer, subtler bands where the singers work within more conventional standards for women's beauty...and I don't just mean outward beauty but the beauty of a person's personality.

I think Paloma seems to share a concern of some younger feminists that outspoken antipathy toward patriarchal namecalling trivializes feminism in the eyes of the public, and so jeopardizes the whole cause.

My view is that the more people express their real views, the better it is. A song that rails on society for something many think is trivial is still valuable because the song is a valid expression of the singers' views.

I haven't listened to enough Riot Grrl songs to know if I have a favorite group, but I still do enjoy the subtlety and simplicity of Tattle Tale's song, "A Girl's Toolbox," which I posted earlier.

First, Tattle Tale cleverly usurp namecalling and turn it into something positive by referring to a girl's tool BOX, a term for female genitalia. Next, they show in the song that women are much more than their genitalia...we have constructive and reproductive powers (as do men) in our tool boxes.

The more I think about that song, "A Girl's Toolbox," the more I like it. So I probably would most appreciate Riot Grrl groups that use gentle subtlety in their lyrics to emphasize the humanity of women. However, I also like strong, forceful angry songs, too. Best of all would be a Riot Grrl group that creates all sorts of feminist songs with all softs of moods and perspectives.

Which Riot Grrl group might that be, where in one song they scream their anger at the horrors perpetrated by those with patriarchal belief systems, and yet in the next song they attempt to softly draw listeners into treating girls and women respectfully and kindly?

It just seems that this debate has now reached several threads and this one, although I understand the obvious connection, is in the music forums where the discussions should be kept to, well, music!

Can someone just start a thread already where we can debate feminist issues?

No

Oh and Vegangelica, you are actually bringing this back to music in some way with your last post. In the nearly thirty posts before it, the vast majority had nothing to do with music at all.

Sorry Mojo, lol

Okay, so on the subject of riot grrl, I feel that female post punk bands are a lot better

What about my post?